bern
newbie
Reged: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1
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Hi everybody,
I recently bought a Nikon d60; I've used it about 5-6 times so far, and it seems to be producing jpgs which are very flat and somewhat washed out of their colour. I previously had 2 small digital cameras (1 panasonic lumix and 1 samsung) and I believe their results were a lot more impressive.
Has anybody else run into this problem?
I showed the results to a friend of mine who is really into photography and he said (having agreed the results were not good) the answer was simple and that I should move to raw. I'm happy to do that if necessary, but first I'd like to get to the root cause of what's going wrong with my jpgs.
I rang Nikon's customer service people today and their counter argument was that the camera sits at a level above a small digital camera, and whereas the small camera's pictures are fully processed and full of immediate impact, that isn't the case with the d60. He explained how there is an image optimisation menu which allow me to make the jpgs more vivid and the other alternative was to shoot in raw.
I'm puzzled why the camera in it's basic form (with touching an image enhancement menus) is producing jpg images which are substandard to those from smaller, less expensive cameras.
Interested to hear your thoughts and any advice you might have on this one.
bern
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Adesw
The phantom flasher
Reged: 07/02/2008
Posts: 674
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Its not substandard though, its set to a default of everything at 0, so its the basic info from the sensor with minimum adjustments. If you want different results, you have to change the way the camera processes them (this is not enhancing) so that it does it how you want.
*digs into cupboard to find a d40 (Theyre pretty much the same camera)
Ok, go into menu, then optomise image. go to custom and set it up how you want. I.e +1 sharpen + 2 tone and max saturation.
This should give you punchier results then leaving it at standard.
Then whenever you take a photo the camera will apply these settings to the picture when converting to JPEG rather then the basic plus 0 of everything. (Note, that this is not an image enhancment as you describe it, its just changing the processing)
Compact cameras are set up to take images straight off that look instantly pleasing to your average joe. DSLR's however are set up at first to a mid point, which then expects you to play around and to optomise it the way you want.
Personally, i shoot in raw, so that I have full control over how the picture gets processed, rather then leaving it down to the camera, and I always got good results with a d40, and continue to do so with a d200. so you may want to go down that route if you're more serious.
http://adesw.deviantart.com/art/audi-2-72542110
http://adesw.deviantart.com/art/That-guy-off-newsround-79116037
http://adesw.deviantart.com/art/Flaming-flowers-78833467
http://adesw.deviantart.com/art/Abandoned-2-79004281
I'd have posted more of a variation, but my deviant art wont let me past the first pages :s But I hope I got the point across that you can process the images the way you like them, I personally quite like contrasty yet mute colours.
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hil26
journeyman
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 75
Loc: North Wales
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Have a look at Ken Rockwells site - gives info on how to set up the camera
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d60.htm
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Learning
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 26/09/2006
Posts: 2014
Loc: Nottingham
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Have you accidently set colour mode ll which will set the colour space to Adobe RGB? Your computer software will by default be set up for sRGB and will cause Adobe RGB pictures to display and print with a compressed range of colour.
You will find much discussion about the relative merits of sRGB and Adobe RGB. What is not open to discussion is that the camera and the rest of your equipment must all use the same colour space. Print kiosks normally expect sRGB.
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3387
Loc: Up North, England.
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With DSLR's the idea is that your pc and your photo processing software are able to do a better job of processing the image than what's built into your camera. So, the theory is that you should shoot RAW or JPEG with all of the settings at 0 and process your shots on your pc to produce a final result which is better, or just more to your own personal taste, than a shot processed in camera.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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IvorETower
Little Buttercup
Reged: 15/11/2006
Posts: 1620
Loc: Camberley, Surrey
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Without wishing to sound smug, bern, it sounds like you have fallen into the classic group of non-enthusiasts whio think that a dSLR will automatically give you better pictures than a compact. dSLRs are aimed at enthusiasts who are willing to spend a bit of time and effort on "post-processing" - working with the RAW files to give them an image that suits their individual taste. By following the advice given in the other answers above, you can tweak some of the basic JPEG processing that is done in camera, but ultimately the best way is to shoot in RAW and post-process yourself.
I do hope you get to grips with the camera; have fun and enjoy yourself!
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hil26
journeyman
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 75
Loc: North Wales
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Quote:
dSLRs are aimed at enthusiasts who are willing to spend a bit of time and effort on "post-processing" - working with the RAW files to give them an image that suits their individual taste.
Hmmm, don't think so.
dSLR's are aimed at those people who wish to utilise the advantage of interchangeable lenses/filters etc to suit the image being taken. Also, dSLR's are used by many professionals who get it right in camera using jpg files. Professionals do not have the time to process multiple RAW images - they would become too expensive and would not sell anything.
That said, RAW is a fantastic advantage.
Also Ken Rockwells site (see link in post above) is full of hints and tips for lots of differing cameras not just the D60 - although I do not agree with some of what he says, it is a good site for help and advise.
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3387
Loc: Up North, England.
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"get it right in camera using jpg files"
When the best quality isn't a priority, yes. But, some DSLR's haven't exactly got a fantastic reputation for top quality JPEG's. Have they?
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2156
Loc: Surrey
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Quote:
Also, dSLR's are used by many professionals who get it right in camera using jpg files. Professionals do not have the time to process multiple RAW images - they would become too expensive and would not sell anything.
I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised if many professionals really used JPEGs in preference to RAW because why on earth would they choose to throw away potential quality at the taking stage, knowing that it could never be subsequently retrieved?
I, as an amateur, always shoot in RAW and use Capture One as my RAW converter of choice. On their forums there has been a lot of sometimes heated debate and it seems to me that opinions are divided along low volume amateur/high volume professional lines. And one of the things the high volume professionals are almost universally demanding is a good, quick work-flow with flexible batch processing options. And there are other, widely used packages such as Lightroom that exist to solve exactly this dichotomy.
Yes, time, for any professional, is always going to be a priority, but that doesn't equate to having to shoot using JPEGs.
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John
The best things in life are not things.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 5161
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised if many professionals really used JPEGs in preference to RAW because why on earth would they choose to throw away potential quality at the taking stage, knowing that it could never be subsequently retrieved?
Think about a sports tog shooting pitch side (with two cameras, one behind the net shooting wirelessly) and wiring shots back to the picture desk almost immediately. It makes far more sense for them to shoot jpegs than mess around with RAW files.
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3387
Loc: Up North, England.
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Maybe, but it all depends upon the expected quality. How "good," JPEG quality wise, would a sports togs shots at the footie match need to be?
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 19520
Loc: Currently Unknown!
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Quote:
Also, dSLR's are used by many professionals who get it right in camera using jpg files. Professionals do not have the time to process multiple RAW images - they would become too expensive and would not sell anything.
Really? I don't know any professional photographer that doesn't shoot in RAW!
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Fen.
- Fen's Flickr Fotos -
"One good photograph does not a photographer make."
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hil26
journeyman
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 75
Loc: North Wales
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Really, and I know a few, who all say that time is money, so less time on PC and more time taking pictures earns them more.
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Nod
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/04/2006
Posts: 4042
Loc: Devon, UK.
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Surely there are at least 2 breeds of pro 'togs? Those who need results yesterday (if not sooner) at a quality that'll look OK on newsprint and those who need as much quality as is possible. Sub-species may include those who want/need to do a lot of PP work on their images as well as those who want to be able to produce prints straight from the camera or card with NO PP work.
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MATWSIJ.....
To avoid being offended, please insert apropriate smiley.
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3387
Loc: Up North, England.
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A guy I talk to on another forum is married to a very successful and talented photographer but she doesn't process her own shots, or at least on some shoots someone else processes them. As a complete amateur it surprised me as I just assumed that a pro would do their own processing.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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Adesw
The phantom flasher
Reged: 07/02/2008
Posts: 674
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Some pros do hire people who are more proficient in photoshop to do the post work.
I think its becoming a practice now for pros to shoot using multiple cards, one set to High quality Jpeg which will be adjusted to their taste in the menu before taking, and the other one for raw files.
This way they get the best of both worlds, it means they can send off the jpegs instantly, but use the raws wherever further or better processing is required.
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hil26
journeyman
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 75
Loc: North Wales
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They just set camera to do both, RAW and jpeg for same shot.
LOcal photographer for the local paper, takes images, sends files straight to the office, where staff do the editing.
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Learning
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 26/09/2006
Posts: 2014
Loc: Nottingham
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Quote:
I think its becoming a practice now for pros to shoot using multiple cards, one set to High quality Jpeg which will be adjusted to their taste in the menu before taking, and the other one for raw files.
Not on a D60 they don't. As far as I know, if pro togs are doing this then pro togs are using D3 Nikons. Perhaps you should find an excuse to post that comment on the Cannon thread 
Back to the initial problem: I still think that we have a colour space incompatibility.
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