ipsofoto
newbie
Reged: 14/05/2007
Posts: 28
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I bought a Canon 5D a year ago and although it produces impressive pictures, I found a significant proportion of my pictures were blurred or out of focus, far more than I experienced with my Canon film cameras. This was mainly down to camera shake on my part I think - though I did think the focusing was idiosyncratic too. Also, I found myself not carrying my 5D around as it was a heavy camera with the 24-105mm lens attached.
I started to look for a smaller and lighter camera - comfort was a major issue as was the quality of the LCD as the 5D's LCD is frankly poor - very hard to tell if something was sharply focused or the appropriate colour.
I tried the Sony A700 - instant comfort - brilliant grip and contours, lightweight and small, large and bright viewfinder, superb LCD etc.
I bought an A700 with a Carl Zeiss 16-80 lens (got a very good deal and with the rebate paid about £1,000) and have used it for a couple of weeks and overall I am very happy - I use it far more than the 5D as it is light and small and easy to carry. On the downside, I think the picture quality is not as good as the 5D especially at high ISOs where the Sony is noticeably grainy. One reason I bought the Sony was that all the reviews complimented the noise control and said it was on a par with Canon 40D etc, it may be comparable to the 40D, but it makes the 5D look outstanding.
Here are some examples:
The pic on the left is the Canon (medium jpeg) and on the right the Sony (xfine jpeg, DRO off, v.3 fireware), both at ISO 800. The Canon is incredible - no grain and very sharp:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipsofoto/2557288124/
This photo is taken at ISO 200 and looks fine:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipsofoto/2557070786/
Here is the window on the left at 100%, it looks very grainy at full rez, even at ISO 200:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipsofoto/2557287926/
This photo doesn't really do the comparison credit, the pic on the right with the SOny at ISO 800 was significantly more grainy than the Canon on the left:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ipsofoto/2556462921/
Question - am I being unrealistic and too harsh on the A700 comparing it to a non like-for-like camera? I appreciate the 5D is a full frame camera, but being 3 years old, I would have expected the technology to catch up. I find the Sony only compares to the 5D if you shoot in RAW as the jpegs are not as high rez, sharp or contrasty.
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 3823
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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Check out my milliepede-skins and snail thread for some examples of ISO3200 indoors without flash and see the lack of noise.
This is the first time I have used that high an ISO on digital, and the pictures are whole frame and untouched.
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Old Photographers never die,They just go out of focus.
Jet Noise - The Sound Of Freedom
She Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
www.flickr.com/photos/gordon_mcgeachie/
www.flickr.com/people/26089093@N08/
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ipsofoto
newbie
Reged: 14/05/2007
Posts: 28
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Hi, do you have a link?
Do you think the pics at ISO 200 and 800 are noisy though? To me, they exhibit more noise than I would expect.
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 2584
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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A smaller sensor is always going to struggle to achieve the same low noise results as a larger one. I don't have a problem with noise on my a700, but I rarely go above ISO 800, always use raw and try not to pixel peep  A program such as NeatImage will remove noise. If you want more contrast/sharpness/colour with jpegs you can always adjust the camera settings.
Here is the link to Gordon's ISO 3200 pictures.
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Rog
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 3823
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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Quote:
A smaller sensor is always going to struggle to achieve the same low noise results as a larger one. I don't have a problem with noise on my a700, but I rarely go above ISO 800, always use raw and try not to pixel peep A program such as NeatImage will remove noise. If you want more contrast/sharpness/colour with jpegs you can always adjust the camera settings.
Here is the link to Gordon's ISO 3200 pictures.
Thanks for putting the link here Rog, these are the first pictures I have taken at ISO3200, and I must say I am impressed with the lack of noise, was tempted to take similar pictures at higher ISO`s though 
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Old Photographers never die,They just go out of focus.
Jet Noise - The Sound Of Freedom
She Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
www.flickr.com/photos/gordon_mcgeachie/
www.flickr.com/people/26089093@N08/
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Malcolm_Stewart
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/07/2005
Posts: 2215
Loc: Milton Keynes, UK
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Quote:
... I found myself not carrying my 5D around as it was a heavy camera with the 24-105mm lens attached. ...
Now you know why despite having a 5D, I've not been tempted to go for the EF24-105 f4L which was packaged with it. Pity, it's an attractive focal range.
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Malcolm Stewart
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ipsofoto
newbie
Reged: 14/05/2007
Posts: 28
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Have you seen this week's Amateur Photographer magazine? It shows that noise-wise (and IQ and resolution) the 5D still beats the D300 and the 40D. It really is impressive, so no wonder that in terms of noise and sharpness of my images, the A700 simply cannot compete.
Having said that, there's no point having the best camera in the world if it never gets taken out of the cupboard. I prefer the light weight and size of the Sony. Having said that, if they replace the 5D with a camera equipped with a decent LCD, I might be tempted to get one for my 17-40mm f4L lens.
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 2584
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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The "best camera in the world" does not get the best pictures in the world. They are made by the best photographers in the world Of course "best" is subjective.
If you can't make exceedingly good images with your current camera it's unlikely that by buying something costing many times as much will make a difference.
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Rog
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 3823
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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Quote:
Have you seen this week's Amateur Photographer magazine? It shows that noise-wise (and IQ and resolution) the 5D still beats the D300 and the 40D. It really is impressive, so no wonder that in terms of noise and sharpness of my images, the A700 simply cannot compete.
Having said that, there's no point having the best camera in the world if it never gets taken out of the cupboard. I prefer the light weight and size of the Sony. Having said that, if they replace the 5D with a camera equipped with a decent LCD, I might be tempted to get one for my 17-40mm f4L lens.
Have you checked out my ISO 3200 pictures from the link Rog put here earlier, I am mightily impressed by the `LACK` of noise in them.
I may not shoot that high very often, but its nice to know what they can turn out like
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Old Photographers never die,They just go out of focus.
Jet Noise - The Sound Of Freedom
She Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
www.flickr.com/photos/gordon_mcgeachie/
www.flickr.com/people/26089093@N08/
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ipsofoto
newbie
Reged: 14/05/2007
Posts: 28
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I did and I was impressed - nice shots. However, they are small images so any noise and grain is minimised. I'd be interested to see a 100% zoom on parts of the hand holding the snail, it would be inevitably grainy with noisy colour spots I am sure at that ISO. This would be the case with 90% of all DSLRs so I am not knocking the Sony, equally, until I had the Sony I was unaware of just how impressive the noise control on the 5D was - virtually grain and noise free to 1600. It's a trade off I suppose.
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 3823
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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Quote:
I did and I was impressed - nice shots. However, they are small images so any noise and grain is minimised. I'd be interested to see a 100% zoom on parts of the hand holding the snail, it would be inevitably grainy with noisy colour spots I am sure at that ISO. This would be the case with 90% of all DSLRs so I am not knocking the Sony, equally, until I had the Sony I was unaware of just how impressive the noise control on the 5D was - virtually grain and noise free to 1600. It's a trade off I suppose.
Please feel free to look at the originals on my flickr site
www.flickr.com/photos/26089093@N08/
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Old Photographers never die,They just go out of focus.
Jet Noise - The Sound Of Freedom
She Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
www.flickr.com/photos/gordon_mcgeachie/
www.flickr.com/people/26089093@N08/
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