Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5672
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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I have just been out to our local lake to try to photograph the resident heron. The bird is a bit camera shy and moves around a lot, so a tripod was not really on. Instead, I used my K10D on a monopod. I was not really suprised that it was still difficult to keep the camera still when using my 80-320 f4.5-5.6 (480 equivalent) lens on full zoom. 'Sway' rather than 'shake' being the problem, if you know what I mean.
I now wonder if it would have been better to try 'IS' and hand held shots. I was typically using about 1/350th at f5.6, so the shutter speed was a bit slow to keep a very sharp image. The light was a bit dull really. I could have upped the ISO, but I wanted low noise as well if possible.
I didn't try this 'in the field' but what do you think would have been better?
I find it a bit difficult to decide at what shutter speed 'IS' is really going to help.
This was probably the best shot:
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David.
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I see the world thro' a viewfinder, but the world watches me via CCTV!
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 2583
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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I've found, over a period of a couple of years, I can expect good results most of the time when using a 450mm (35mm equivalent) at shutter speeds down to about 1/125th. I would usually snap a couple off at that speed but would be confident of a single shot at 1/250th. I have occasionally got good results at much slower speeds - but more by luck than skill 
I'd rather opt for higher ISO - better a bit of noise than a bit of blur.
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Rog
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4194
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Personally I've never found monopods to be much more use than a string donut but I am aware that some people swear by them. If I can't have a proper tripod then a bean bag perched on a convenient wall / bench back etc. would be my choice ... but hand held with IS sounds sensible ... you could also try using the ErgoRest Multi Tripod in its chest support mode (with or without IS enabled).
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Burgy
Grateful not to have one
Reged: 13/04/2001
Posts: 5185
Loc: This far, from beating 7 shade...
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Quote:
then a bean bag perched on a convenient wall / bench back etc.
Cos there is always a conveniently placed wall. Maybe I should ask the Premiership to build some at the edge of football pitches, or the National Trust to do similar. If you want to take a photograph, why sacrifice composition for convenient brick walls?
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Cheers
Burgy BSRIPN, BSc, DSO and Bar (now open 24/7).
it's not what you've got, its who you do it to
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5672
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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And it is a bit easier to adjust your composition with a monopod than it is with a bean bag on a wall that isn't there!  
I have found one good way of getting the best from a monopod is to sit down on a bench, if one happens to be there (any excuse), or kneel down. Use the stick on a shorter extension which helps to control the sway. They are really good with a wide to medium zoom (17-70 for instance) but not so good with a real telephoto. The trouble is a tripod is useless for bird life, they simple do not stay still enough for long enough.
Where I was today, there are three lakes within about 500 yards of each other. Everytime I approached the heron, it flew away to the other lake. After I caught up with it it moved on again.
Next time I will try hand held with and without 'IS' and see what I get. I really want to catch one inflight again doing a 'Concorde' style landing wings extended. I have one such shot (on Flickr) but it is a crop and too low res to print properly.
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David.
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Photos hosted by Flickr.
www.flickr.com/photos/monobod/
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I see the world thro' a viewfinder, but the world watches me via CCTV!
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Burgy
Grateful not to have one
Reged: 13/04/2001
Posts: 5185
Loc: This far, from beating 7 shade...
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Or just simply get closer.
Shot with an 80-200 on an EOS1v
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Cheers
Burgy BSRIPN, BSc, DSO and Bar (now open 24/7).
it's not what you've got, its who you do it to
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5672
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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Where I was then, I would have needed a boat or waders to get closer.
This is the shot I am trying to improve on:
For our club 'Natural History' print competition in a few weeks time. But taken with a longer lens and from a better viewpoint to lose the timber bridge in the background.
Edited by Monobod (09/04/2008 09:51)
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 36293
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Must say my monopod gets a lot less use now I have some IS lenses.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 19499
Loc: Currently Unknown!
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I read this as "Monobod versus 'Image Stabilisation'"
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Fen.
- Fen's Flickr Fotos -
"One good photograph does not a photographer make."
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5672
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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Quote:
I read this as "Monobod versus 'Image Stabilisation'"
I'm not anti everything.......
Being a bit more than a bit dyslexic, I almost wrote Monobod instead of Monopod.
Edited by Monobod (09/04/2008 15:09)
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 36293
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Quote:
I read this as "Monobod versus 'Image Stabilisation'"
I'm not anti everything.......
I read it the same way, which made me smile - although I've never considered you to be anti very much at all, even if we have disagreed on one thing. 
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 5161
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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What's wrong with a monpod and IS?
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5672
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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Quote:
What's wrong with a monpod and IS?
Using IS on a tripod is 'Forbidden Territory' according to the book. I am not sure how it would work with a monopod. The type of movement one gets is more sway than shake. The sway has larger displacements with a long lens than hand held and panning gives. It depends, I suppose, just how badly ones own lack of steadyness is. I do not suffer from the shakes, so I think hand held might be better for a moving bird in flight.
The interesing question is at what shutter speed is IS no longer required. We used to have a rule of thumb that said use a shutter speed equivalent to the focal length. 1/200th for a 200mm lens etc. Does IS not have any real value once the shutter speed exceeds this rule? Probably not I would think. It is more to do with slower shutter speeds in poor light, enabling one to use a lower ISO setting.
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David.
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Photos hosted by Flickr.
www.flickr.com/photos/monobod/
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I see the world thro' a viewfinder, but the world watches me via CCTV!
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4194
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Using IS on a tripod is 'Forbidden Territory' according to the book.
Yes it is. However the risk is that, during a long exposure, the IS gyros will drift, leading to an effect that looks like camera shake even though the lens and camera may have been held rock steady.
In my experience leaving IS switched on with fractional second exposures on a tripod has no ill effects on image quality, though as the manual says there may be a significant current drain which could result in your battery lasting less shots than you thought probable.
I've also deliberately used IS on a long heavy lens mounted on an inadequate tripod (with exposures in the 1/125 sec range) and found it helpful.
Quote:
The interesing question is at what shutter speed is IS no longer required. We used to have a rule of thumb that said use a shutter speed equivalent to the focal length. 1/200th for a 200mm lens etc. Does IS not have any real value once the shutter speed exceeds this rule?
The "rule" applies only to ideal conditions - if it's windy, the ground underfoot is slippery etc. then you may have difficulty avoiding camera shake even though you have selected a "safe" shutter speed - IS will help in those conditions. Also the "rule" may need to be modified for small sensor cameras - i.e. use the effective focal length rather than the actual when guessing a "safe" shutter speed. A 200mm lens on a APS-C format camera probably needs a shutter speed of 1/320 sec or faster unless some sort of physical, optical or electronic stabilization is employed.
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 9095
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Quote:
The interesing question is at what shutter speed is IS no longer required. We used to have a rule of thumb that said use a shutter speed equivalent to the focal length. 1/200th for a 200mm lens etc. Does IS not have any real value once the shutter speed exceeds this rule? Probably not I would think. It is more to do with slower shutter speeds in poor light, enabling one to use a lower ISO setting.
I remember reading an article somewhere (can't remember whether it was in a magazine or book or what) about the advantages of tripods. I remember that there was an accompanying set of pictures taken with a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera with and without a tripod. IIRC the shutter speed was something like 1/250th before the hand held shot was anything like as sharp as the tripod picture...
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN 
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is better than one in the cupboard........
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IvorETower
Little Buttercup
Reged: 15/11/2006
Posts: 1620
Loc: Camberley, Surrey
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Quote:
What's wrong with a monpod and IS?
A missing "o" ???
I'll get my coat
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