DaveG40
enthusiast
Reged: 21/07/2007
Posts: 236
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I recently posted a topic about exposure compensation & as a follow up am trying to find out more about histograms.
Would i be right in thinking that only live view equipped D-slr's come with a live histogram ?.
Being new'ish to d-slrs I am suprised that given the flexibility of D-slrs (totally customizeable), that my 10mp d-slr does'nt have a live histogram, which means having to go into playback in order to view the histogram so that i can make ev changes, whereas with my Tiny Panny TZ3 It has a live histogram, are D-slr live histograms restricted to live view only models ?.
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Burgy
Grateful not to have one
Reged: 13/04/2001
Posts: 5185
Loc: This far, from beating 7 shade...
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I am not sure that a LIve Histogram would actually be that useful, as until the moment of exposure none of the values are fixed, so it could well prove misleading. Besides it is easy enough on most DSLRs to have the histogram on the review screen with the image itself.
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Cheers
Burgy BSRIPN, BSc, DSO and Bar (now open 24/7).
it's not what you've got, its who you do it to
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LargeFormat
old hand
Reged: 24/10/2006
Posts: 952
Loc: Buckinghamshire and Cumbria
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Quote:
until the moment of exposure none of the values are fixed,
Blimey, I go through three seasons taking a photograph. 
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Zou
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/02/2007
Posts: 2017
Loc: Edinburgh
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I've never found histograms to be particularly useful. With a levels/curves dialogue yes, but at point of capture they seem a bit pointless to me. Blown highlight flashing things are more useful overall for me.
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Zou's Flickr Page
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 9100
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Quote:
... are D-slr live histograms restricted to live view only models ?.
Yep...
DSLRs without live view cannot display a live histogram as the sensor is not active, the mirror is down and the shutter closed. AFAIK most can be set to display the histogram with the quick review picture displayed immediately after taking the shot.
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN 
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is better than one in the cupboard........
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DaveG40
enthusiast
Reged: 21/07/2007
Posts: 236
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Because I'm eager to learn/get the most out of my Camera I've only just started using histograms & seeing the benefit of using them, I've got around the problem of exposure compensation by using exposure bracketing which is something i've been playing with since my ev query, but this can be a nause; taking up 3 shots, reviewing & then deleting the 2 shots you don't like, for me looking at the histogram has helped me as i learn how to ensure my photo's are correctly exposed,so for me (at the moment) histograms are useful, Cameras have progressed so much since the days i owned a Pentax MG & i'm just a little surprised that modern d-slr's don't have some sort of live histogram/exposure gauge in the viewfinder, something like the shake warning /scale of shake that's on my D-slr.
Is it something that'll happen / the next innovation or something not worth doing ?.
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2156
Loc: Surrey
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My Samsung GX-10 (and hence the almost-identical Pentax K10D) comes close... the on/off rotary switch, mounted concentrically around the shutter release, has a third, momentary, position. This can be set to either stop the lens down for a depth of field check, or set so that it captures a preview shot that, unlike a shutter press, is not saved to the memory card. In the case of the latter a histogram can be shown as well. It's thus just one quick flip of the control to get a preview plus histogram. Having said that, I rarely use the facility because, as David has said, light can change quickly and, anyway, it's just as quick to press the shutter and have a look at the preview plus histogram that way. On my camera the preview has the histogram overlaid on it, but this is no problem as it disappears if you zoom in on the preview to check sharpness etc.
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John
The best things in life are not things.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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fivepsaver
old hand
Reged: 29/07/2006
Posts: 726
Loc: windfarmland
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Having spent most of last year using a bridge camera and tending to rely quite a lot on the live histogram,I thought I'd find it awkward when I upped to the D50. At first,yes,but now I miss it like I miss my ex mrs and thats, not one tiny bit.
Nig.
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Burgy
Grateful not to have one
Reged: 13/04/2001
Posts: 5185
Loc: This far, from beating 7 shade...
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Quote:
Cameras have progressed so much since the days i owned a Pentax MG & i'm just a little surprised that modern d-slr's don't have some sort of live histogram/exposure gauge in the viewfinder, something like the shake warning /scale of shake that's on my D-slr.
They do, it is called an exposure meter, it shows what the metered value is, depending on the camera make/model you can use selective or spot metering to give you values for different parts of the scene.
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Cheers
Burgy BSRIPN, BSc, DSO and Bar (now open 24/7).
it's not what you've got, its who you do it to
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5672
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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Using the preview image on the K10D can be useful, but only in certain circumstances. If one is taking a controlled shot on a tripod, where the image is not going to 'vanish with the moment', then it is ok. If, on the other hand, one is taking shots at a sporting event, then the shot will be missed. So I tend to take the shot, check the histogram afterwards, sometimes and correct any problems, if any, in the Adobe Bridge raw converter. I don't think a live histogram would be that useful to me on most occasions.
After all, in the days of film, one relied on the camera's meter and ones own knowledge of its limitations. I tend to still work that way now.
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David.
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Photos hosted by Flickr.
www.flickr.com/photos/monobod/
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I see the world thro' a viewfinder, but the world watches me via CCTV!
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Rhys
Sasquatch
Reged: 15/01/2004
Posts: 2685
Loc: York (home of the speedbump)
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Blimey, what did we do before digital? (felt such a prat a while ago after I got my old F4 out when my digi battery died - took a pic then looked at the back.. D'oh!)
I don't really understand histograms myself, the flashing blown highlight view serves me better and even then I rarely use that. Wonder if there is a zone sydtem for digital?
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NRIPN (Officially Nuts..)
RGMP.co.uk (My Website.. well early stages anyway)
Benchinistas.org.uk The home of Benchism
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4200
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Quote:
until the moment of exposure none of the values are fixed,
Blimey, I go through three seasons taking a photograph.
Takes about 15 seconds to go through 3 seasons the way the weather is at the moment. 
The "histogram" display I find useful is a simple chart with 2 numbers on it. You set the "black point" and the "white point", say 32 and 200, the two numbers are the percentage of points in the image below the black point and above the white point. By changing the black & white point values you can get a very good idea as to what is going to look solid shadow and burned out on the image.
But it's an image processing activity - to do with curves whilst processing on the computer, not something to fiddle with at exposure time. There's already plenty of information to slow down the act of capturing a raw image, IMO live histograms are simply another distraction.
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