celestine47
member
Reged: 26/06/2006
Posts: 108
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hello,
I am thinking of using the Kodak Portra range of negative film because I have read that it has a scanner friendly layer , whatever that is?. has anyone used this range of films and scanned them?? advice or anecdotes appreciated.
crh
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 36824
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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I don't know about the film's construction, but it does scan very nicely in my experience.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4406
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Well, nearly all the colour film I use is transparency, but I do use a negative film occasionally. Can't say that I've noticed any particular differences when scanning different colour neg films, other than Portra giving much better results (scanned or wet printed) than e.g. Kodak Gold.
By and large I find scanning from transparencies is easier - for a start there is no orange dye layer to mess up colour balance. I find noise is more easily controlled with transparencies. I've also noticed that scanned negatives need added contrast (consequent on the greater latitude), this can easily make things look unnatural.
If you know you are going to scan colour negative material, it would be worthwhile to try rating it a stop slower than its "official" value, as this helps drag shadow detail from the toe of the response curve onto the more linear section. It isn't likely that you'll burn out the highlights.
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domroberts
Reged: 13/07/2000
Posts: 64
Loc: Kent
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You could try Rollei Scanfilm, an obscure unmasked Colour Neg film. Mike Maunder gives an excellent review of it in Ag Magazine, reproduced on the Silverprint website. Just scan it as a B/W neg, but put the scanner on colour mode as well.
The orange dye in Neg films is not technically a layer, the couplers for the cyan and magenta dyes are themselves dyed to correct imperfections in the final print colours, particularly in the yellow-forming blue-sensitive layer. When red is photographed for example, the resulting cyan on that part of the negative is therefore not masked at all. (Don't get me started on Agfacolor!)
Scanners need to and do work with this but it takes longer as the colours are dealt with through complex algorithms in the software rather than by light on paper emulsion.
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Dom Roberts
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Woolliscroft
veteran
Reged: 23/08/2005
Posts: 1253
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I use Portra a lot, mostly 400NC in medium format. It's lovely stuff and does scan very well, but I can't say that I have noticed that it scans better than anything else. As for the orange base my scanner seems to filter it out just fine automatically, as does my Nikon dedicated 35mm scanner.
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David.
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4406
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
As for the orange base my scanner seems to filter it out just fine automatically
Sure - but it means you're restricted to "automatic white balance" which isn't always the effect you require.
The jiggery pokery involved in filtering out the minus orange cast (don't forget there is a negative to positive inversion as well) seems to complicate correcting the colour compared with scanning colour transparencies.
Must admit I haven't tried the Rollei film, I probably won't as I use little colour negative stock these days.
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 36824
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Must say my Multi Pro does a fantastic job with colour neg - it's simply not an issue. portra scans wonderfully, better than any other colour film I've used - I would consider using it almost exclusively as my colour films of choice if I had any confidence in Kodak continuing to make it in 120 for any length of time. As I haven't, I'll continue to use Velvia.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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domroberts
Reged: 13/07/2000
Posts: 64
Loc: Kent
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Hmm, I can remember Portra being updated, around late 2005 I think. I have a feeling it was super-thin emulsion layers. Think about scanning Kodachrome which has quite thick dye layers due to the way it is processed (you can see a very pronounced 'relief' pattern on the emulsion side). This makes chromatic aberration (colour fringing) a problem and ICE doesn't really work at all. I'm not certain of the science on that side of things though!
It would certainly follow that thin emulsion layers and fine grain (or dye clouds, whichever you prefer) will lead to more defined scans. Also wouldn't surprise me if the orange mask had been toned down even more to make the job easier for the scanner.
Hope this all helps!
NB. Have a roll of Rollei Scanfilm here, mainly as it looked fun. Will report back if and when I use it!
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Dom Roberts
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Woolliscroft
veteran
Reged: 23/08/2005
Posts: 1253
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Quote:
Quote:
As for the orange base my scanner seems to filter it out just fine automatically
Sure - but it means you're restricted to "automatic white balance" which isn't always the effect you require.
Not with the Nikon: you can still tweek the colour balance to your heart's content.
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David.
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Rhys_Hardwick
enthusiast
Reged: 12/04/2007
Posts: 212
Loc: Cardiff, Wales, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for the orange base my scanner seems to filter it out just fine automatically
Sure - but it means you're restricted to "automatic white balance" which isn't always the effect you require.
Not with the Nikon: you can still tweek the colour balance to your heart's content.
Ahem. Not just Nikon cameras. Quite a few, including Canon, include full temperature and tint control, with bracketing.
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Rhys Hardwick
www.rhyshardwick.co.uk
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Woolliscroft
veteran
Reged: 23/08/2005
Posts: 1253
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for the orange base my scanner seems to filter it out just fine automatically
Sure - but it means you're restricted to "automatic white balance" which isn't always the effect you require.
Not with the Nikon: you can still tweek the colour balance to your heart's content.
Ahem. Not just Nikon cameras. Quite a few, including Canon, include full temperature and tint control, with bracketing.
Er yes, but we're talking about scanners dealing with the orange mask in col neg film.
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David.
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4406
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Quote:
Sure - but it means you're restricted to "automatic white balance" which isn't always the effect you require.
Not with the Nikon: you can still tweek the colour balance to your heart's content.
Yes you can tweak. But the range is restricted by the tweaking that is done automatically by the removal of the cast. Think of it as a slider which has to be pushed most of the way across to fix the orange layer.
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Rhys_Hardwick
enthusiast
Reged: 12/04/2007
Posts: 212
Loc: Cardiff, Wales, UK
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Sorry *slaps wrist*
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Rhys Hardwick
www.rhyshardwick.co.uk
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Woolliscroft
veteran
Reged: 23/08/2005
Posts: 1253
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Sure - but it means you're restricted to "automatic white balance" which isn't always the effect you require.
Not with the Nikon: you can still tweek the colour balance to your heart's content.
Yes you can tweak. But the range is restricted by the tweaking that is done automatically by the removal of the cast. Think of it as a slider which has to be pushed most of the way across to fix the orange layer.
I haven't noticed such a limitation. You can still get the whole picture to come out bright blue (or any other colour) should you wish.
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David.
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