Mojo_66
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 25/05/2006
Posts: 3137
Loc: Lancs
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Has anyone tried processing colour film in B&W chemistry? I've got a fridge full of cheap colour print films as the lab I used to use gave a "free" one away with each film left for D&P. I rarely use colour print film, but shoot loads of mono and was thinking of giving it a go as it's probably the only way I'd use it.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojo_black/
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TheCircleOfConfusion
veteran
Reged: 01/03/2006
Posts: 1364
Loc: The People's Republic of Geord...
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I've never tried it but I do remember seeing something about it in a book I've got. I'll have a look when I get home.
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www.thecircleofconfusion.com
"They're just photos after all"
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Mojo_66
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 25/05/2006
Posts: 3137
Loc: Lancs
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Cheers, that'd be great.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojo_black/
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taxor
Reged: 09/07/2004
Posts: 552
Loc: Lancaster, UK
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I wonder if you can process Scala in neg chemistry? Any ideas anyone?
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"I wanna hold your gland". Lemming & McCartney
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TheCircleOfConfusion
veteran
Reged: 01/03/2006
Posts: 1364
Loc: The People's Republic of Geord...
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Unfortunately the article I was thinking of was not so much a how-to as a how-to-salvage...
"Colour processed as monochrome will produce a negative with a yellow or orange stain. It should be printable as is onto b&w paper.
If you must, then to remove the stain mix up a batch of film fixer, add 8g/l of citric acid, dunk film in some wetting agent, rinse, then soak in the fixer for 7-14 mins. Check regularly to ensure image is not bleached"
(extract from "Photo Data" by Richard Platt)
The Massive Dev chart quotes dev times for Ilford XP2 and Kodak 400CN. Both are mono films that get processed in C41 so they might give you a starting point for your development.
XP2/400CN @ 400
D-76, stock, 14mins, 22degC
ID-11, stock, 14mins, 22degC
I suspect the results will be pretty awful but they might also be rather interesting. If you get anything please post a scan as I'd like to see if it works!
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www.thecircleofconfusion.com
"They're just photos after all"
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Mojo_66
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 25/05/2006
Posts: 3137
Loc: Lancs
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I might give it a go then. As I say I'd probably never use the films otherwise, they're just cheap print films, probably not even worth the hassle of putting them on ebay. Yellow casts sound interesting, not quite as attractive as the sepia you get from coffee, but interesting none the less! I'd probably be using DDX but 14 mins seems about standard. Thanks for taking the time to look, and if I get anything from the film I'll post it in the Exhibition Lounge.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojo_black/
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mpt600
newbie
Reged: 02/04/2007
Posts: 36
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I've tried this a couple of times just to see if a newly aquired old camera actually worked or not. The orange cast overwhelmed any image on the film, but it was just possible to see that the shutter was working properly and the film was being advanced with no overlaps.
If it's possible to get a useable neg this way I'd love to know; I've got about 30 cheap as chips Kodak freebies from Truprint in the freezer.
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domroberts
Reged: 13/07/2000
Posts: 64
Loc: Kent
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Processing C-41 in B/W is not generally recommended as it is fairly pointless, but also quite fun!
As regular B/W processing does not have a bleaching step, the Yellow Filter layer remains in the film, causing the dark yellow 'stain'. Also, the coloured dye couplers are not destroyed in processing as they might be in C-41 (depending on what was exposed and what dyes needed to be formed). As far as I know the dye anti-halation layer is still removed as all this needs is the alkalinity of the developer.
So, what you have is a silver image with lots of other components all adding to the density, this adds markedly to the grain of the film. Furthermore, the yellow/orange base (with the filter layer) will act as a safelight to B/W paper, so bear this in mind if trying to print the negatives on conventional mono material. Scanning should be simple enough, providing the Dmax of the scanner is adequate for the density of the negative. Just treat the film as a colour negative and desaturate in Photoshop.
I've used the citric acid 'bleach' myself, this is a gentle formula designed to remove the yellow filter (and also handily removes some of the silver in the highlights) but have little effect on the image. I found the bleach far too slow - 30 minutes or so - for the effect it had.
One possible way forward (for experimentation!) is to process C-41 film in B/W chemistry (dev, stop, fix, wash) as normal, then bleach everything using a Ferricyanide bleach, give the film a really good long wash, then redevelop it in the same B/W chemistry. This will remove the filter layer and dye couplers, and should give you a nice contrasty neg. The orange base of the colour negative material is not removable.
If you've got lots of spare rolls of cheap C-41 film, I'd say you'd be better to have a go at cross processing them in E-6, which is much more fun and gives far more interesting results. Truprint is 3M or Agfa neg film I think, try overexposing one stop and pushing +3 in E-6.
Dom
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Dom Roberts
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Mojo_66
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 25/05/2006
Posts: 3137
Loc: Lancs
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Thanks for that Dom, it does indeed sound interesting. I'm not too sure if I'd try the E6 route though, I was just looking to dev it on the cheap really, and I always have mono developer in. I used to have some Farmer's reducer, but stuck it on ebay a while back as I thought I'd never use it. Should've kept hold of it, I like a nice contrasty mono neg. I don't mind a colour cast, and I wouldn't be printing them in a darkroom as sadly I don't have one anymore, so I'd be going the scanning route. The films I've got are mostly Tudor and Kodacolour.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojo_black/
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domroberts
Reged: 13/07/2000
Posts: 64
Loc: Kent
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Let me know how it goes - I've not done that many of those, not enough anyway.
I had the bright idea today, while processing a batch of Scala, to try running a C-41 test roll through the Scala process (after all the Scala films are completed obviously) and see what comes out. Black and orange slide film anyone?! 
Dom
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Dom Roberts
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nickc
Reged: 23/02/2003
Posts: 31
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This is sometimes the only way to get an image from an old colour film where the process is no longer available (eg C22)- here is an example that I processed a bit back.
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JLLj
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Nick
camera - noun.
An apparatus for taking photographs, generally consisting of a lightproof enclosure having an aperture with a shuttered lens through which the image of an object is focused and recorded on a photosensitive film or plate.
Free Online Dictionary
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domroberts
Reged: 13/07/2000
Posts: 64
Loc: Kent
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No longer available?!?!? *cough cough*
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Dom Roberts
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nickc
Reged: 23/02/2003
Posts: 31
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Its a fair cop Dominic. I was aware of the service you offer - I suppose what I meant was no longer available locally at a price you would use for a 'found' film.
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Nick
camera - noun.
An apparatus for taking photographs, generally consisting of a lightproof enclosure having an aperture with a shuttered lens through which the image of an object is focused and recorded on a photosensitive film or plate.
Free Online Dictionary
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