| Damien Demolder |
| (Tharg the Mighty) |
| 23/02/2008 10:25 |
FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Do you think Fuji should launch the medium format folder shown at PMA? Read more about it in The Informer free with this week's issue, and then vote here.
Is a new medium format folder a good idea, and do you think there is still a market for a small 6x7cm body?
Thanks for playing
damien
| GeoffR |
| () |
| 23/02/2008 10:57 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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No thank you, I have for some years found difficulty in getting film processed and now that Metro have moved away from the West End I have no preferred lab anywhere near by. The idea is appealing but in practice it wouldn't get used.
| Zou |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 23/02/2008 11:29 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Absolutely yes. It's exactly the kind of camera I want, the only competition (and I know it's a different proposition entirely) being a Mamiya 7. I want a good, reliable, 6x7 format camera which doesn't require regular gym sessions to carry across country, something which can be a travelling companion without drawing huge amounts of attention.
My only wish is that they price it sensibly, and not do a Nikon S3/SP replica type thing, where it was hugely expensive and available in limited numbers only to be snapped up by collectors, leaving your working class togs like me feeling somewhat left out.
| Wheelu |
| (member) |
| 23/02/2008 12:23 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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I agree entirely with Zou, at the right price I would buy one.
You can't beat a larger negative for quality and the portability of this folder makes it very appealing. I have considered buying a vintage folder and might still do so, but the idea of a good modern lens and fully reliable set of bellows is too good to miss - provided that it does not cost an arm and a leg
| LargeFormat |
| (old hand) |
| 23/02/2008 12:39 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Yup, me too.
| davidh |
| (addict) |
| 23/02/2008 14:10 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Quote:
I agree entirely with Zou, at the right price I would buy one.
You can't beat a larger negative for quality
AP would appear to disagree, given the Canon 1Ds Mk3's place compared to 120 film in its review on Feb 2nd...
| Damien Demolder |
| (Tharg the Mighty) |
| 23/02/2008 14:37 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Quote:Quote:
I agree entirely with Zou, at the right price I would buy one.
You can't beat a larger negative for quality
AP would appear to disagree, given the Canon 1Ds Mk3's place compared to 120 film in its review on Feb 2nd...
Interestingly, one of the reasons Fuji is thinking of launching it is because they think (MF) film is still better than digital photography. Well, that's what the project manager said anyway. Different qualities, I suppose, rather than necessarily better.
Do you think they should go for the standard lens or the wide?
| tazio35 |
| (member) |
| 23/02/2008 15:23 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Quote:Quote:Quote:
I agree entirely with Zou, at the right price I would buy one.
You can't beat a larger negative for quality
AP would appear to disagree, given the Canon 1Ds Mk3's place compared to 120 film in its review on Feb 2nd...
Interestingly, one of the reasons Fuji is thinking of launching it is because they think (MF) film is still better than digital photography. Well, that's what the project manager said anyway. Different qualities, I suppose, rather than necessarily better.
Do you think they should go for the standard lens or the wide?
What's a 1Ds cost? About £6k? You can buy and process a lot of 120 film for that. At, say, £1 per shot including processing (and postage to a lab) it would take a while to equal the spend. Especially as the format discourages the machine gun approach.
Wide lens.
| OneTen |
| ('Two Breakfasts') |
| 23/02/2008 15:23 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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I'd like a black one please.
I'd much prefer a 65mm lens for 6x7, on the Mamiya 7 I used that focal length far more than the 50mm and 80mm lenses. As others have said, the price would have to be right.
| chris000 |
| (veteran) |
| 23/02/2008 15:29 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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I'd buy if the price is not excessive.
Quote:
Different qualities, I suppose, rather than necessarily better.
Exactly, and if you prefer those qualities (as I do) then that makes it better - if you don't, stick to pixels
Quote:
Do you think they should go for the standard lens or the wide?
Wide
| Clodhopper |
| (Manyana) |
| 23/02/2008 15:33 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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No.
I don't hold with these new-fangled contraptions.
| Hopeless_Andy |
| (member) |
| 23/02/2008 15:57 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Little interest for me. The amount of these they're likely to shift will mean the price will be too high. A second hand bargain is much more appealing.
| NorthernMonkey |
| (enthusiast) |
| 23/02/2008 18:26 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Where do I sign up? I'll definately be buying one.
| T Sargeant |
| (Jessies' Finest *) |
| 23/02/2008 18:32 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Love the idea but I agree with this as a sentiment.
Quote:
The amount of these they're likely to shift will mean the price will be too high.
What do people think a reasonable price would be..?
| Lounge Lizard |
| (Old Wrinkly) |
| 23/02/2008 18:32 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I'll test it for you as soon as you get hold of one.
| Damien Demolder |
| (Tharg the Mighty) |
| 23/02/2008 18:47 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
I'll test it for you as soon as you get hold of one.
You'd be lucky to get it out of my hands, you Lizard you
| Benchista |
| (Wich Tyler) |
| 23/02/2008 19:05 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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50mm, please!
| Tacitus |
| (History) |
| 23/02/2008 20:56 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Why have Fuji created the prototype of a very 'retro' camera? Is it:
* pure marketing hype - "Hey, we are still here"
* a niche-marketed cash-cow for rich Japanese collectors
* an oblique pitch for a bigger market share in film (competing more strongly with Kodak) hence:
* a serious attempt at securing some additional film sales, while people are still interested, etc
* senior executives nostalgia/menopause/senior moment
* the techies had some spare time on their hands
* R&D is tax-deductable in Japan
* someone found some 40-year old blueprints and decided to have a mess around wi' them
* it's mid-April in Japan already, and the announcement was at the start of the month
* ...
If it's gonna be a well-made metal camera, not a collectible 'toy', and at a sensible price, I'd buy one.
I'd prefer a slightly wideangle lens, say 60-65mm. It all depends on the lens type: a f3.5 bellows mounted lens suggests a 'simple' Tessar type - not great as wide angles. Also, it has to perform at least as well as a Super Ikonta for it to be a camera worthy of serious consideration
.T.
I presume The Informer is out on 26 Feb?
| FujiSigmaNolta |
| (I can pan!) |
| 23/02/2008 21:09 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Well maybe its a bit of everything. Fujifilm was the one to sponsor (or started) the choose-film.com initiative and I think it is in their interest to keep film alive as much as it is in the interest of the still great numbers of photographers who want to use film. We have seen many good work from photographers down at Choose-Film and the latest photos of Lindsay Lohan as Marylin Monroe prove that film still has a lot to give. I for one believe that if those frames were shot in digital they would have looked very flat in comparison. I had lots of my colleagues guessing at what digital camera was used for the shoot "because of the quality", but no one even hinted for a fraction of a second of film. They were all shocked to find that it was all shot on film.
| Wheelu |
| (member) |
| 23/02/2008 21:28 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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It appears to have an 80mm f3.5 lens which is approximately equivalent to a 40mm lens on a 35mm camera. That's fine by me
Re what price is reasonable - well that depends upon whether or not Canon can get their act together and produce a well specified 5D mark 2 for around £1300. If they do I won't have any spare cash, but if they don't.......
£350 perhaps.
| Rhys |
| (Sasquatch) |
| 23/02/2008 21:40 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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I voted yes, I'd have one with the wide-angle lens. I used to carry around a Zeiss Ikon folding camera and loved it.
| Tacitus |
| (History) |
| 23/02/2008 22:50 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Quote:
Re what price is reasonable ....
£350 perhaps.
Well, a "state of the art" Super Ikonta (Tessar lens) cost something like £27-30 in 1936. Using standard conversion tables/formulae that's about £1400 in today's money.
Lower production costs and larger markets nowadays give us "state of the art" cameras at about half of that cost. Making a further allowance for the Fuji 67 RF not being remotely "state of the art" - my guess is ....
Yup! £350 also - that's a quarter of the price of a Super Ikonta. At that price it'd be a bargain!
| Carrie |
| (journeywoman) |
| 23/02/2008 23:11 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Very interested, but it would depend on the price being right.
| huwevans |
| (Old Hand) |
| 24/02/2008 00:05 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I'm a big fan of MF rangefinders, and if it weren't for the fact that my needs in that department are well supplied by the Mamiya 6 (which has the clear advantage of interchangeable lenses to boot) I'd certainly be interested.
As for the lens, it sounds like a reasonable compromise to me - it will certainly suit a lot of people. Good wide lenses are not all that compact, and would probably be far too deep for the folding design which clearly motivates this camera. The 80mm focal length, OTOH, will allow a compact design of very high quality indeed.
| huwevans |
| (Old Hand) |
| 24/02/2008 00:19 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
50mm, please!
As in my post - not whilst retaining the compact folding design - at least not of terribly high quality.
Compact wides certainly are possible - the Dagor type was a stand-by for yonks in the LF world (and still is for many, especially ULF people, though I don't think anyone still makes them) - but it's not all that great unless stopped down well, and even then can't really compare with a good Biogon type. It's also not terribly fast. The narrower angle of the 'standard' lens (which 80mm is - just about) allows much, much better quality and at a much larger aperture, without the lens becoming either big or heavy. It really is a far more reasonable choice for a camera like this.
| Scphoto |
| (Little Fruitbat) |
| 24/02/2008 00:38 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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As an owner of a fairly underused Fuji GA645Zi I'm sort of excited about this new camera, however at present I couldn't justify it. Maybe I should start using film again!
| NorthernMonkey |
| (enthusiast) |
| 24/02/2008 07:43 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Quote:
Re what price is reasonable (snip)
£350 perhaps.
Dont think we will get one for less than about £5-600, more likely around the £750 mark I would have thought.
I've already started saving the pennies
| Woolliscroft |
| (veteran) |
| 24/02/2008 10:20 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Quote:Quote:
I agree entirely with Zou, at the right price I would buy one.
You can't beat a larger negative for quality
AP would appear to disagree, given the Canon 1Ds Mk3's place compared to 120 film in its review on Feb 2nd...
I must confess that I prefered the look of the MF image in that review, but I already have good 6x7 cameras with interchangeable lenses and a good 6 x 9 folder, so no real interest to me.
| Hotblack |
| (Dead Horse Flogger) |
| 24/02/2008 10:30 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I would like to say yes as I have been hankering to do some MF photography for a while.
BUT despite the fact that there are loads of superb 2nd hand MF cameras available at little money I haven't actually done anything about it. As others have pointed out, it would be nice to know what sort of price we're talking about.
I certainly like the idea but then I would also have to start thinking about getting something like the Epson V750(??) scanner (The one with the wet neg olders) to get the best scans from it.
I'd like to have a go with one but I think I'm unlikely to buy one.
Right. I can vote now. Yes. They should go ahead with it.
| mertonia |
| (old hand) |
| 24/02/2008 11:30 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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When using MF i use my untrustworthy Holga. It cost me £12.50! I only use B and W film - and i have found the Holga to be a bargain
peter
| ChrisBrookes |
| (veteran) |
| 25/02/2008 23:20 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I would like to see a larger format sensor be more available, which should push down the price of 35mm size sensors. the jump between aps-c and 35mm and then up to medium format sensors is astronomic ! So I want a 66 Mp Sensor in a camera for 1500 quid with incredible quality lenses at 89.99 !!! I have had a few to drink !! ( I also want 89 fps at 66mp !!!!) I also want ........... no I cant say that !!! a) cos its not true and b) cos thats how likely my previous request is !!!
| ChrisBrookes |
| (veteran) |
| 25/02/2008 23:23 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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As for MF folders well I could be tempted if he quality was right !! although I have never dev'd MF I would like to play !
| tazio35 |
| (member) |
| 26/02/2008 00:54 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
When using MF i use my untrustworthy Holga. It cost me £12.50! I only use B and W film - and i have found the Holga to be a bargain
peter
Yes, I like the combination of lousy quality lens with excellent quality film. You can see the blur in great detail.
| Benchista |
| (Wich Tyler) |
| 26/02/2008 08:00 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
the jump between aps-c and 35mm ... is astronomic
Well it's not really - the EOS 5D is heading rapidly for the £1000 barrier and is about the same sort of price as the D-300 and E-3, which seems pretty competitive to me.
| beejaybee |
| (Marvin) |
| 26/02/2008 11:09 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
Well it's not really - the EOS 5D is heading rapidly for the £1000 barrier and is about the same sort of price as the D-300 and E-3, which seems pretty competitive to me.
Indeed. And I'd venture to suggest that the cost differential between a Canon EOS 1Ds and a 400D, or between a Nikon D3 and D40, has far more to do with quantity production costs than it does with the price differential between an APS-C and a full frame sensor - which is probably at most a few pounds at the production plant gate.
| Zou |
| (Pooh-Bah) |
| 26/02/2008 12:09 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I'd second that.
As for the 120 vs 1DS MkIII comparison, does it matter? Surely the important thing is we should have a choice. Whether one is 'better' than the other is hardly the issue. Photographers have to make their own decisions on what picture quality means to them.
| FujiSigmaNolta |
| (I can pan!) |
| 26/02/2008 18:11 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
I would like to see a larger format sensor be more available, which should push down the price of 35mm size sensors. the jump between aps-c and 35mm and then up to medium format sensors is astronomic ! So I want a 66 Mp Sensor in a camera for 1500 quid with incredible quality lenses at 89.99 !!! I have had a few to drink !! ( I also want 89 fps at 66mp !!!!) I also want ........... no I cant say that !!! a) cos its not true and b) cos thats how likely my previous request is !!!
Stop giving the Russians ideas!!....
(Kiev 6C user)
| Learning |
| (Ethelred the Ill-Named) |
| 26/02/2008 19:00 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Nostalgically I would like one, but realistically I know that I would not use it. Developing film is OK but I no longer have a darkroom for printing and am not sure that I would enjoy working alone printing anyway. As for scanning medium format I am just not set up for it; I bought a Coolscan 5000 not an 8000 yet rarely use my F100 camera.
For a fixed focal length camera I think that a Sigma DP2 (if it has a 24mm lens and ever exists) would be my choice.
Whatever, I think that Sigma's offbeat DP1 has more potential than Fugi's film folder.
| parisian |
| (Over the hill and far away...) |
| 27/02/2008 07:37 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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All I can say is hooray
for fuji.50mm please if Huws caveats can be sorted.
| DaveS |
| (enthusiast) |
| 28/02/2008 15:51 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I wanna I wanna I wanna waaah
I love my old Ensign 820 but the back broke off recently and although I superglued it on its still too fragile really. And Pan F rated at EI 32 and deved in PMK (6.30 + 2) gives quality that digital has no hope of equaling. This seems like the modern version I've long wanted, so if the price is right...
Dave
| Benchmark |
| (Is it safe?) |
| 29/02/2008 12:48 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Yes please!
I use my Mamiya 645 quite a lot, but I would probably use (and carry) a folder even more. I am also attracted by the larger format.
As for price, I would expect to pay somewhere between £350 to £500, although I might stretch to £600.
However, what I'm not sure about at present is whether this camera has a light meter. Does anyone know?
| Tacitus |
| (History) |
| 29/02/2008 13:27 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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It is reported to have ApAE = meter. But the inclusion of AE in a folding camera with between-the-lens shutter (behind, even) poses some interesting questions about the electronic coupling of the lens to the 'cpu'. The photos strongly suggest that the meter cell is in the body, next to the v/f.
| beejaybee |
| (Marvin) |
| 29/02/2008 13:34 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
But the inclusion of AE in a folding camera with between-the-lens shutter (behind, even) poses some interesting questions about the electronic coupling of the lens to the 'cpu'.
The problem is no worse than e.g. connecting the display in the lid of a notebook computer to the main circuitry in the base. Flexible ribbon cables can be made very thin and will still be perfectly effective so long as a heavy current draw is not expected. They could be embedded in the bellows.
Is the shutter electronic or clockwork?
| DaveS |
| (enthusiast) |
| 29/02/2008 14:04 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I think the original news story said electronic. I could be wrong of course! (And not for the first time)
Dave
| Tacitus |
| (History) |
| 29/02/2008 14:19 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
Is the shutter electronic or clockwork?
I'd hope that the shutter is electrically powered and electronically timed. The worst case would be separate mechanical shutter cocking and wind-on: that would be a pain, slowing operation somewhat. Autococking (mechanical) would involve a lot more mechanical linkage between the body (winder) and lens panel, so my guess is a fully "fly-by-wire" shutter (plus an 'Armstrong Winder').
I'm off to Wm Hill's with a 50p wager this very minute.
| beejaybee |
| (Marvin) |
| 29/02/2008 16:14 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
I think the original news story said electronic.
The point being that, in that case, there needs to be electrical linkage between the lens panel and the body to supply power to the shutter even if there was no metering at all, or if the meter light sensor was mounted on the lens panel. Makes lots of sense to do it that way, you can have the shutter release on the body; the major irritation of by old Ensign 820 (RIP) was the shutter release, on the lens, being very awkward if hand holding the thing.
| JDCB |
| (Bench Free Zone) |
| 01/03/2008 11:34 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Damien,
based on the interest this thread has demonstrated to exist, are you able on behalf of the contributors to draw Fuji UK's attention to it? I'd be happy for Fuji to have my contact details so they can alert me if they do decide to proceed. Putting up a webpage to register interest on the Fuji UK site wouldn't be too hard for them to do, and a note from you through AP alerting us all to the webpage would probably suffice.
I'd like one, and would be prepared to pay £500-650 for it with a 60mm lens, or £350-450 for one with a 80mm lens. Any more and we're into the price range of a used Mamiya 7 plus standard lens.
James
| John_Black |
| (newbie) |
| 01/03/2008 17:54 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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I still have my mother's Zeis Ikonta 6 x 9, which is the first camera I used. The trick to deal with the lens mounted shutter is to use a short cable release; you trap the finger hold between the top of the camera and your forefinger and release it with the thumb. The thought of a modern camera thats as handy to carry, with coated optics, a rangefinder, medium wide lens and exposure meter makes me drool.
| Benchmark |
| (Is it safe?) |
| 01/03/2008 19:47 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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Quote:
The thought of a modern camera thats as handy to carry, with coated optics, a rangefinder, medium wide lens and exposure meter makes me drool.
Me too.
.......... And if a film manufacturer is planning to release a new film camera, it makes a lot of sense for the camera to expose as many silver halide crystals as possible every time the shutter button is pressed.
| DaveS |
| (enthusiast) |
| 03/03/2008 10:56 |
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Re: FUJI'S MEDIUM FORMAT FOLDER - YOU WANT ONE?
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My Ensign (Also RIP efectivly) has a body-mounted shutter release with a fancy link to the lens. It also has a fairly effective double-exposure prevention.
Dave
| John_K |
| (addict) |
| 04/03/2008 08:46 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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I would love one, but when I asked at the Fuji stand at the NEC all I was met with was blank stares. No one knew anything about it. Either they are keeping quiet or one part of the company is not talking to the other.
| Benchista |
| (Wich Tyler) |
| 04/03/2008 08:52 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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TBH I was rather surprised there was mention of film on the Fuji stand, never mind film cameras.
| huwevans |
| (Old Hand) |
| 04/03/2008 11:01 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Someone on a forum I was reading the other day said they understood it was only intended for the Japanese home market. I've no idea what the basis for that remark was, so take it with however large a pinch of salt you see fit, but certainly it wouldn't be without precedent for a Japanese camera maker to do such a thing. OTOH, if it were the case, why show it at PMA? I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
| Benchista |
| (Wich Tyler) |
| 04/03/2008 11:04 |
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Perhaps they're sure they want to make it for Japan, but were unsure about the global market, hence wanted to guage the response?
| huwevans |
| (Old Hand) |
| 04/03/2008 11:20 |
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Re: Fuji's medium format folder - You want one?
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Yes, possibly. In which case I hope they're getting encouraging feedback on it. I'd like to see it produced and sold here, even though I won't actually be in the market for one myself (though only because I've already got a Mamiya 6).