Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5090
Loc: Havant, UK
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is very tempting, or am I just being foolish, thing is the full sized sensor seems such a draw!!
Or would I be better off just keeping the extra k for a lens?
A few of you are familiar with my photography and I don't print larger than A3
I am at the mo doing a project and would like something faster than the D100 for RAW.
I'm under no illusion whatsoever that this camera would make me any better but I would like to know that I'm getting the best quality I can.
So what's the sensible choice, 300 or 700?
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 20816
Loc: Currently Unknown!
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I'm not (D700) going to mention any (D700) camera as I (D700) don;t want to (D700) influence you in any (D700) way.
I think (D700) you need to (D700) look at what you've (D700) got and what a new (D700) camera would bring to your (D700) photography.
Full-frame (D700) is good for (D700) wide angle...
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Fen .......... My Galleries - My Blog - My Flickr
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IvorETower
Little Buttercup
Reged: 15/11/2006
Posts: 1742
Loc: Camberley, Surrey
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If you intend to go full-frame, D700. If you are content with APS-C (what a horrible abbreviation that is!), then a D300 will be more than adequate. I still dream of being able to afford a D300 - unless the D80's replacement, whenever it may be launched, offers as much for less money.
Dear Santa ... (nothing like planning ahead)
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Too many cameras, too many lenses.......
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PaulatUKcamera
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 24/05/2005
Posts: 1908
Loc: West Wales
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Tanya,
Not trying (D300) to influence (D300) you in any way (D300) 
Do you predominantly take wide angle views? If so the D700 is probably the better choice.
If you are telephoto inclined then the D300 is the best choice on grounds of economics and ergonomics! I find the f2.8 80-200mm a beast to carry round after the portability of a Panasonic Bridge camera. At least I am getting a fast 300mm out of it.
At least two equal size bodies gives you a certain purity of choice, for everything is equal bar:
D700 Viewfinder - back to the clarity and size of your old SLR. Yes, a lot better than the D100. However, the D300 is good mind, better & brighter than you would expect (Not as clear & bright as a Minolta XD7 but, if it won't start another riot, far superior to the current Olympus range - we have one at work) I don't think you will be unhappy with the view through a D300 - really I don't.
D700 - legacy lenses give the focal length they were designed for. A big plus if you have a standard zoom left over from the old days. If you just have primes - think of the cost advantage of having the 1.5 multiplier effect - a f1.8 standard becomes a nice fast portrait lens for only £70.
So probably not the clinching arguments either way.
Decision thus has to be based on - full frame sensor output quality alone. Better yes. Quantifiably better in your case?
Depends on how fast your lenses are (nullifies high iso performance to a certain extent) and what sort of enlargement you want and if you would really use the superior high iso because you take a lot of photos in low light.
In my case I don't think the extra £500-£700 over the D300 justified simply because that sort of money will pay for the upgrade from my D200 to another D300 body. For me that gives the versatility of two completely different fast zooms at either end of the spectrum ready for action at all times.
If you have a normal income, try and avoid the Leica justification arguments (attractive as it is!) Best bit of kit = superior photos.
Paul
(I wonder what the price of an R7 has dropped to - always wanted one!)
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Paul Winter (CRIPN)
Web Site: UKCamera.com
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Learning
Ethelred the Ill-Named
Reged: 26/09/2006
Posts: 2277
Loc: Nottingham
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Quote:
(I wonder what the price of an R7 has dropped to - always wanted one!)
No to an R7. I would like an M series to play with. But for an SLR to use (digital or otherwise) then a middle or top Nikon wins without any doubt. Functionlity beats sentimentality for a working instrument. The old rangefinder would be a lovely toy.
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PaulatUKcamera
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 24/05/2005
Posts: 1908
Loc: West Wales
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Wish you hadn't said that.
Got 3 X FE2s & a couple of FAS!
Thinking of pruning them now as I just think one for old times sake will do!
Paul
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Paul Winter (CRIPN)
Web Site: UKCamera.com
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37652
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Well it's not true, anyway. Any R series Leica is much nicer than a Nikon, and has better lenses. R7s are from £299 at Ffordes... 
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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TarquinBiscuit
Sometimes I feel like screaming
Reged: 03/02/2001
Posts: 9417
Loc: Staffs/Derbys border
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Quote:
I'm under no illusion whatsoever that this camera would make me any better but I would like to know that I'm getting the best quality I can.
It all depends, Tanya. I have always maintained that the 'best quality' comes from using a DX sensor with a full frame lens - just using the 'sweet centre' of the lens as they say. Full Frame does, however, have advantages especially a) for ultra wideangle shots and for the size of the viewfinder image. And in the case of the D3 (and I have no reason to believe the D700 should be any different) the placing of just 12+ mp on a full frame sensor has opened photography up to shots that were previously unobtainable because of its ability to operate so well in low light.
A further advantage has become apparent to me with hand-held flower shots. By using a high ISO it is possible, especially in close-up. to operate in the inevitable winds that crop up when the shutter is about to be pressed, by the provision of a very fast shutter speed.
The new lenses: 14-24 - which I don't have and the 24-70 - which I do, are out of this world on the D3 (and again I'm sure on the D700)
If I had to choose, I would certainly go for the D700, provided the reviews are OK. It is expected that the D700 will be in the shops later this month.
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Clive BSRIPN
Cover of the Rolling Stone
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Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5090
Loc: Havant, UK
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Thank yo uall for your replies
I do plan, as I have previously asked, to get a wide angle lens. Glad I didn't plump for one to go on the D100 now, I never thought a full frame sensor would come into reach so quickly!
Paul on the read ups I too noticed about the view finder, gues I won't know if this will be a bug bare in comparison to the D300 until I go have a look.
I'm not dashing out on this one but a new purchase is a must imo for me, I too am keen to see what the new D80 is going to offer.
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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Nod
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/04/2006
Posts: 4301
Loc: Devon, UK.
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D700 price - D300 price = about £500 - £700. How about a D300, an F80 (for the wide angles) and plenty of change for D&P over the next few years until FF is more affordable (and, no doubt, high ISO performance will be improved even further!)
Have to admit that a D700 is rather tempting - but I'll wait for it to drop below the grand barrier.
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MATWSIJ.....
To avoid being offended, please insert apropriate smiley.
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PaulatUKcamera
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 24/05/2005
Posts: 1908
Loc: West Wales
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Quote:
but I'll wait for it to drop below the grand barrier.
The lesser of:
Introduction of the new model
Two years!
D200s now available from £474 at MPB
and it was well over £1000 when announced (£1200 I think!)
Difficult to get used to these rates of depreciation on cameras. I avoid it on cars by always buying secondhand (never had a new car in my life and I don't think I could ever face up to -£3000 pa as my son seems to!)
Paul
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Paul Winter (CRIPN)
Web Site: UKCamera.com
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parisian
Over the hill and far away...
Reged: 10/02/2002
Posts: 7721
Loc: Môn mam cymru
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Fen, that isn't the way that subliminal suggestion works.
You have to be whispering it under her pillow all night instead.
Not quite sure how Tanya would take this but you could always ask 
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Hells pensioner - born to be mild
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 20816
Loc: Currently Unknown!
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Quote:
Not quite sure how Tanya would take this but you could always ask
I'd be more concerned at what Ian would think !
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Fen .......... My Galleries - My Blog - My Flickr
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Nod
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/04/2006
Posts: 4301
Loc: Devon, UK.
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Quote:
Quote:
but I'll wait for it to drop below the grand barrier.
The lesser of:
Introduction of the new model
Two years!
D200s now available from £474 at MPB
and it was well over £1000 when announced (£1200 I think!)
Paul
I know I paid £815 for mine (D200) almost exactly a year ago - and was happy to get it at that price!
As for the FF DSLR, I'm a patient man, besides, I have a couple of film bodies for the FF experience and the patience to wait for films to be D&Ped. Just a pain to have to wait for the scanner to finish with them after all the previous waiting!
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MATWSIJ.....
To avoid being offended, please insert apropriate smiley.
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Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5090
Loc: Havant, UK
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Quote:
Fen, that isn't the way that subliminal suggestion works.
You have to be whispering it under her pillow all night instead.
Not quite sure how Tanya would take this but you could always ask
 lol 
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5090
Loc: Havant, UK
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ok at the risk of sounding a complete thickie, how will I know which lenses are full frame compatible?
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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TarquinBiscuit
Sometimes I feel like screaming
Reged: 03/02/2001
Posts: 9417
Loc: Staffs/Derbys border
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OK: basically ALL Nikon lenses are compatible with the D3 and presumably the D700. There are probably a few in the history of Nikkors which are not, but it is unlikely that this will be of any concern here.
They ALL perform well on the D3 and will give amazing results at high ISOs. Some will give more vignetting than others (personally I am surprised how little vignetting I have found so far considering that this has been a bigger problem with some other FF DSLRs) Just like FF lenses on 35mm film, resolution can be less good at the edges and corners of the frame. The same (vignetting and less edge resolution)applies to DX lenses on a DX sensor.
As far as I am aware, only 3 lenses have been specially developed for FF Nikon DSLRs: the 14-24, the 24-70 and the new 60mm Micro. I have the latter two of these and can vouch for their exceptional qualities with the D3. I have not found, in practice, the particular problem that this week's BJ(P)found with the 70-200VR, and have done my best to illustrate this on another thread.
Generally speaking, a Full Frame lens on a DX sensor will give better overall resolution than on a FF sensor. This is because the DX sensor effectively crops the FF image to the centre of the image, where in all known lenses the resolution is better than that at the edges (I'm sure someone will pick me up on that) Even the amazingly capable 3 lenses I have mentioned above will comply with this.
My personal delight with the FF D3 is NOT that it just happens to be the same size as a 35mm frame, and I can cope with the loss on the wideangle side- I have taken some good images with the 12-24 DX.
But if I were a landscape freak then I might think differently on this one. My delight is the ability to use very high ISOs on a FF sensor with just 12 million photosites. Unless Nikon has something exceptional up its sleeve I don't think I would be interested in a 24mp FF sensor as the D3X seems to be getting.
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Clive BSRIPN
Cover of the Rolling Stone
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Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5090
Loc: Havant, UK
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Thanks so much Clive a lot clearer now!
I was confused after reading about the crop function for APS-C designed lenses and what lenses are FF so as not to have to use this.
Yes the ability to shoot in low light is a big draw for me and not have all the noise of the D100!
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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TarquinBiscuit
Sometimes I feel like screaming
Reged: 03/02/2001
Posts: 9417
Loc: Staffs/Derbys border
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The low light thing is just a little bit short of miraculous, Tanya. I should have said that DX lenses are, of course, designed for DX sensors. They do work on the D3 but at 6mp rather than 12. Still very acceptable and still with the high ISO/low noise quality. I would expect the D700 to do this, but I haven't studied the data closely enough yet.
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Clive BSRIPN
Cover of the Rolling Stone
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Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5090
Loc: Havant, UK
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Thank you again Clive, think I understand it all now
Lucky for me apart from an old 60mm micro I don't have any other lenses so will be starting from scratch!
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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