Damien Demolder
Tharg the Mighty
Reged: 22/08/2001
Posts: 1055
Loc: Essex born and badly-bred
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What with the police, community support officers and security men all becoming much more interested in photographers, do you feel it is more likely now that you will be prevented from taking pictures in a public place?
We've heard plenty of stories of our readers and professional photographers being stopped and questioned, and even detained, for taking pictures in quite normal places, but we want to hear how you feel when you go out. Have you been stopped, and do you feel there is a good chance you will be stopped? Does a fear of being stopped curb your activities in any way?
Head to the Home Page to vote, and discuss your experiences in this thread.
Thanks
damien
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See my photographs at www.wordsonpictures.com
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Lounge Lizard
Old Wrinkly
Reged: 17/01/2004
Posts: 17885
Loc: Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
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It makes me more determined than ever to assert my rights to take the pictures where it is legal to do so. I do not want my freedoms as a law-abiding citizen and photographer to be curtailed by so-called knee-jerking. The issue is with educating the public and the police. The understanding should not be one of 'terrorists may use cameras, therefore all photographers are terrorists'. 
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Lounge Lizard
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill
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jchrisc
Reged: 20/01/2003
Posts: 5625
Loc: Ampthill, Bedfordshire
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Yes I have been stopped, by a PCSO and the stop included a threat to confiscate my camera if I did not stop taking pictures.
I politely "saw off" the PCSO by asking him to bring a police constable and I subsequently wrote to the local Chief Constable, but never got a satisfactory response. The essence of the reply that I received was that the matter had been investigated and the PCSO "has been found to have acted according to his duties".
The incident would not stop me from taking pictures in public in future and indeed I have since taken many pictures around the location at which I was stopped.
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Chris
My memory is getting worse . . . and my conscience clearer
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Dave_Cox
old'n'grumpy
Reged: 12/07/2006
Posts: 3236
Loc: somewhere in Sussex
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I psoted recently on a web forum for PCSOs, and this was the response to photography in public:
"You're free to take photographs and if directed to do otherwise, just ask for the legal power or Act and Section from which the PC or PCSO believes they derive their power."
"I'm not 100% sure what powers of seizure PCSOs have nowadays - but I know that PCs would not necessarily need a search warrant to seize your equipent in some circumstances; if you look up Section 19 of Police and Criminal Evidence Act, you'll see that the powers to seize items is quite far ranging.
I'm pretty sure that S.19 PACE doesn't apply to CSOs though"
"Unless criminal enquiries or terror related, then NO right to confiscater or delete any pictures, whatsoever. However it doesn't stop you asking to see the pictures to determine for yourself. We get these very day on the railway and airports. Also no right to ask someone to stop filiming you in public ( railway stations are all private property and as long as it's not for commercial gain, selling to the papers or a mag, photoshoot etc, ) then it's not illegal, bearing in mind parents don't like their kids being filmed, especially at swimming pools and parks."
I'm going to carry on taking photographs, and take the proffered advice if stopped - after all the quotes above are from PCSOs, (two from the Met area and one from South London.)
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Growing old disgracefully!
http://snapper56.deviantart.com/gallery/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave2006/
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Burgy
Grateful not to have one
Reged: 13/04/2001
Posts: 5217
Loc: This far, from beating 7 shade...
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Quote:
Also no right to ask someone to stop filiming you in public ( railway stations are all private property and as long as it's not for commercial gain, selling to the papers or a mag, photoshoot etc, ) then it's not illegal,
That is bollox, commercial gain is irrelevant, unless it is a specific rule of the owner of the private property owner. The PCSOs also cannot enforce it as they are not a representative of the owner, if I was approached by a pCSO and told to stop, I would demand that a representative of the owners make themsleves known to me. As for the reference to selling to the newspapers, even Ken Livingstones Nazis in Trafalgar Square won't try and stop a press photographer taking pics, it is not considered commercial photography.
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Cheers
Burgy BSRIPN, BSc, DSO and Bar (now open 24/7).
it's not what you've got, its who you do it to
Please read the forum guidelines RE links before adding URLs here. Thank you. Admin.
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2540
Loc: Surrey
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Recently I was taking photographs of a delapidated building in Croydon and was accosted by two burly and slightly aggressive drunks. They told me "ish illurgal to potogruff n publake" but I looked them in the ever-so glazed eye whilst gripping the camera tightly in a ready-to-swing position, and told them they were talking botox. After a while their attention fixed on someone else and they staggered off. Perhaps they were the Sweeney?
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John
Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope, it does not exist?
R.D.Laing The Politics Of Experience
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2540
Loc: Surrey
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By the way Damien, in the poll question, don't you mean 'likely' rather than 'like'?
And, if AP ever needs a copy-righter, can I have the job please?
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John
Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope, it does not exist?
R.D.Laing The Politics Of Experience
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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Lounge Lizard
Old Wrinkly
Reged: 17/01/2004
Posts: 17885
Loc: Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
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Quote:
Yes I have been stopped, by a PCSO and the stop included a threat to confiscate my camera if I did not stop taking pictures.
My first line of 'defence' against such an approach would be to politely ask if they are familiar with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 Code B relating to seizure of property and ask to see their card outlining their powers as a PCSO. Their seizure powers are limited to tobacco and alcohol from minors, vehicles used to cause alarm and distress (joyriders), and to the seizure of prohibited articles found during a search when accompanied by a police constable.
If they wish to do a stop and search of a pedestrian under the Terrorism Act 2000 or later amendments, it can only be done in the presence of a police constable and a PCSO can only detain you for up to 30 minutes to establish your identity (or wait for a PC to arrive) if you have committed an offence. As far as I can see in PACE, there is absolutely no mention of the taking of a photograph in a public place as being an offence.
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Lounge Lizard
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill
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AlanW
Reged: 08/01/2001
Posts: 3119
Loc: Edinburgh
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I voted 'no'. I've been shooting openly on the streets of Edinburgh most weekends for the last 12 or so years without any trouble, mind you with so many tourists around no-one pays any heed to someone with a camera.
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AlanW
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chris000
veteran
Reged: 30/11/2005
Posts: 1304
Loc: East of Stonehenge ... just
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I voted yes because I believe the likelihood of being stopped has increased, but to be honest I've not had any actual trouble so far. This might be because most of my photography is 'rural' but I do also live in an area surrounded by military installations and camps so have always had an 'awareness' of what I'm pointing my camera at.
I would not photograph children because I think it is simply asking for trouble in the current climate - this doesn't bother me much because I hate kids anyway (I'm not a proud parent - you can tell can't you  ) - but I do think it is a real shame that we have arrived at a point where I even have to think about it
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Chris
The most beautiful thing under the Sun is being under the Sun - Christa Wolfe
www.chriswaldrenphotography.co.uk
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Dave_Cox
old'n'grumpy
Reged: 12/07/2006
Posts: 3236
Loc: somewhere in Sussex
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Quote:
By the way Damien, in the poll question, don't you mean 'likely' rather than 'like'?
And, if AP ever needs a copy-righter, can I have the job please?
Copy-righter???? writer
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Growing old disgracefully!
http://snapper56.deviantart.com/gallery/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave2006/
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2540
Loc: Surrey
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Quote:
Quote:
By the way Damien, in the poll question, don't you mean 'likely' rather than 'like'?
And, if AP ever needs a copy-righter, can I have the job please?
Copy-righter???? writer
I know what I meant! Perhaps I should have put [sick] after it?
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John
Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope, it does not exist?
R.D.Laing The Politics Of Experience
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7966
Loc: Doon the glen
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I voted no too Suspect this poll applies more to those taking photographs in England though....nae luck 
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Bawbee
Out on a whim
Reged: 06/05/2000
Posts: 7200
Loc: Dundee, Scotland, UK
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Alan,
Is that a 'Blue-Meanie' booking the Polis?
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Bawbee BSRIPN
"I was born a cynical b'stard and I'll die a cynical b'stard! ."
Bawbee C. Nesbitt
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Bawbee
Out on a whim
Reged: 06/05/2000
Posts: 7200
Loc: Dundee, Scotland, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
By the way Damien, in the poll question, don't you mean 'likely' rather than 'like'?
And, if AP ever needs a copy-righter, can I have the job please?
Copy-righter???? writer
I know what I meant! Perhaps I should have put [sick] after it?
No, No John, Stet will do fine
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Bawbee BSRIPN
"I was born a cynical b'stard and I'll die a cynical b'stard! ."
Bawbee C. Nesbitt
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Mr_Geoff
tog with no title
Reged: 11/01/2005
Posts: 2087
Loc: Essex
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Yes, I feel it's more likely I'll get inconvenienced by either PCSOs or idiots, but it's not going to stop me!
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Geoff - My Flickr Page
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AlanW
Reged: 08/01/2001
Posts: 3119
Loc: Edinburgh
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Quote:
Is that a 'Blue-Meanie' booking the Polis?
Yep, taken outside the Crown Office in Chambers Street,
the Evening News ran it with a story a week or so ago
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AlanW
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Footloose
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/08/2005
Posts: 3188
Loc: Berkshire based.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, until people take this issue into the Courts, where the do's, don't and procedures regarding how we are treated is formally clarified, we will continue to hear many more complaints. However, those who have threatened to do this so far, have settled out of court, and that just might point to the possibility that the powers being used, are indeed beyond the margins of what would be deemed unreasonable, and there are agencies who do not want that to happen. There have been instances in the past where legislation has been brought in and subsequently rules have been imposed as to what is and is not a reasonable manner in which to treat individuals.
The fact that professional photographers and journalists felt that they needed to get their 'Rights' clarified and set down in black and white, seems to indicate that something similar needs to be done regarding 'Joe Public' too. I fully accept that the perceived threat of Terrorist activity means that levels of security need uprating and officers etc need to be a lot more vigilant, but that does not mean they are also entitled to act in the heavy-handed and unpleasantly officious manner that some think they can. It seems to me that the authorities have been given these powers, but have not (or do not want) cast in stone, (or on paper) a formalised structure regarding how 'suspects' are treated.
Detective Chief Inspector Mark Lawrence has said he "Will 'encourage officers at ground level to adopt a more sensible approach when considering whether to stop photographers and other Londoners who are in the vicinity of transport networks.", but I would say to him that 'encouragement is not what is needed, but rather a formal set of 'Rules of engagement'.
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Trainee reprobate with a pronounced limp (spelt L .. I .. M .. P.)
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Tacitus
History
Reged: 17/01/2006
Posts: 871
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There's an opportunity to tell the National Socialists, Oops "New Labour" what you think about "Community Policing" (PCSOs etc), on their "Discussion" web pages - though this page may not be live for very long.
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APchris
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/05/2006
Posts: 1670
Loc: Lincolnshire
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I've not experienced any problems, but then I don't feel comfortable taking pics on the street so only rarely take those types of images - probably due to the fear of being challenged after reading here and in AP about the problems other togs have had!  
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Chris
Better a bad day on the water than a good day at the office 
My Flickr sets
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