Damien Demolder
Tharg the Mighty
Reged: 22/08/2001
Posts: 1055
Loc: Essex born and badly-bred
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Which are you - and how much do you need to earn before you can count yourself as professional?
Go to the home page to let us know how much of your income comes from photography. Are those who earn nothing purer amateurs? Do you need to sell your soul to become professional? Is a bit of both the best option?
Thanks for playing, and happy fighting! 
damien
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See my photographs at www.wordsonpictures.com
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 3222
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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What! Take money, prostitute my art! Never!
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Rog
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Carrie
journeywoman
Reged: 31/01/2006
Posts: 633
Loc: England
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Definitely 100% an amateur.
If I could make a few pounds from selling a few photos I'd happily do it, there's always some new piece of kit I'd like. I don't think that would be enough to turn me into a professional.
Possibly one of the things that moves it from one to the other is to do with what drives the taking of the photo in the first place?
Taking the photos that you want, when you want, and selling a few to reinvest in kit = amateur
Planning photoshoots to meet someone else's requirements, using the money for general living expenses = pro
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Carrie
Proud to be FRIPN
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Brendan
member
Reged: 27/01/2006
Posts: 117
Loc: Birmingham UK
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I do it for the fun of it. I don't want to spoil it by having to do it for money.....
Anyway, life is hard enough for Pros without 'amateurs' taking their work for 'pin money'.
That doesn't mean I don't aspire to 'professional' standards though!
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Brendan Delaney
brendandelaneyphotography.com
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 4248
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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I did hear/read some years ago, that if you earn 70% or more of your income through photography, then you are classed as a pro.
How true this is, I am not sure
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She (Avro Vulcan XH558) Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
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IvorETower
Little Buttercup
Reged: 15/11/2006
Posts: 1792
Loc: Camberley, Surrey
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I don't get any income from photography, however a reasonable proportion of my income goes on photography
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Too many cameras, too many lenses.......
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JDCB
Bench Free Zone
Reged: 15/05/2006
Posts: 1236
Loc: On the Edge of the Fens
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In the last five or so years, I've earned exactly £150 from photography (one image of early morning rowing on the Cam, sold to a University photo shop opposite one of the Jessops in Cambridge). I've spent a few pennies more.
James
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 5269
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
that if you earn 70% or more of your income through photography, then you are classed as a pro.
70% seems high to me - unless it's 70% out of £1 per year 
Sure the value wasn't 10%?
It's still daft, that way you could have a city worker earning £100,000 a year from photography and still being classed as an amateur (because of his million pound bonus) whilst someone who sold one picture for £1 but has no other income (not entitled to state benefit, lives in a cardboard box and eats from the dumpster) is classified as a professional.
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Hwntws
addict
Reged: 17/04/2006
Posts: 646
Loc: Neath, South Wales
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I've not charged anyone for my photographs, not sure if they're good enough.  Many, many moons ago I did a wedding for a friend, never again. All liked the pics and said they were great, but when I mentioned to groom that they might like to cover cost of film and printing, only a few pounds in those days, I thought he was going to have a fit.  . Not friends any more. 
Regards
Ray
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Born in Neath, Live in Neath, I'll die in Neath and then I'll be Under -----
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Woolliscroft
veteran
Reged: 23/08/2005
Posts: 1253
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Photography is not my job, but I couldn't do my job without it. Likewise, I make money from writing books, which tend to be illustrated with my photos, but they are archaeology, not photography books. I guess, therefore, that although I am certainly not a pro photographer, I'm not quite a pure amateur either, but in some grey area in between.
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David.
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spinno
Curmudgeonly Fellow
Reged: 07/02/2007
Posts: 3359
Loc: Meat and Fish
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Quote:
I don't get any income from photography, however a reasonable proportion of my income goes on photography
I would agree except for one word- unreasonable
swmbo told me to say that
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David
No emoticons were harmed during the production of this message, but if you feel affected by the issues contained herein please contact our premium charge helpline based in Nigeria
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mjc7uk
Am I banned yet?
Reged: 08/07/2006
Posts: 2867
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I am not even worthy to be "amateur" never mind the pro!
I just do it for my own enjoyment.
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The Nikonboy is back...
We can't stand about here doing nothing. People will think we're workmen. - Spike Milligan.
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 21357
Loc: London'ish
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Serious Question
What do you select if you work in the photographic trade?
Your income may not come from selling photos or prints, but does it still count as 100%?
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Fen .......... My Galleries - My Blog - My Flickr
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6375
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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I'd say 100% Fen. The question asks about income from photography, not from being a photographer, so any of the associated trades would count.
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 21357
Loc: London'ish
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Hmmm, perhaps I need to alter my question...
Most of my work (Mon-Fri) is working on old photographs, restoring and tidying them up. So I'm not actually doing any photography, it's all done digitally (scanning, photoshop, printing).
So, you could say I don't make any money from 'photography' as such. It's more down to my graphical skills and knowledge of photoshop.
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Fen .......... My Galleries - My Blog - My Flickr
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Clodhopper
Manyana
Reged: 04/04/2007
Posts: 449
Loc: Norfolk 'n good
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I sell the odd pic, but consider myself an amateur. I certainly seem to spend more than I earn
I believe 10% income from photography makes you a pro as far as most competitions go.
Hmmm. My income is variable to say the least, depends on the weather, DEFRA, livestock diseases, etc. If a midge bites a cow I may well become a professional photographer 
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Everything's shiny Cap'n
my pics
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6375
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Would you then say that a mechanic doesn't make any money form cars? Afterall, he doesn't make them, just tunes them and repairs them.
To take an inome from photography you don't have to take any photographs just be involved in some part of the process from retail, through training and then into processing and post-processing.
I've even heard talk that some people scrape a living writing about Photography, but not in AP, they're all distinguished amateurs afterall. Aren't they?
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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ChrisBrookes
veteran
Reged: 05/11/2005
Posts: 1587
Loc: Oswestry Shropshire UK
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I don't earn any money from photography , but what does count as earnings? is it profit after expenses such as ink and paper or developing costs ? Or do you have to amass the sums you have already spent on photographic equipment before anything counts as income ? Because if it is your only source of income you obviously need to make enough money to reinvest in cameras computers, software lenses etc ?
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Chris Brookes 
http://flickr.com/photos/chrisbrookes/
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Fen
BAD WOLF
Reged: 12/03/2002
Posts: 21357
Loc: London'ish
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Quote:
To take an inome from photography you don't have to take any photographs just be involved in some part of the process from retail, through training and then into processing and post-processing.
Then I think some justification needs to be done by AP for their competitions then as they class 'amateur' as someone earning less than 10% of their income from photography.
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Fen .......... My Galleries - My Blog - My Flickr
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6375
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
Quote:
To take an inome from photography you don't have to take any photographs just be involved in some part of the process from retail, through training and then into processing and post-processing.
Then I think some justification needs to be done by AP for their competitions then as they class 'amateur' as someone earning less than 10% of their income from photography.
This is why lawyers can make so much money, from arguing over what certain words, phrases and paragraphs mean, intend and say!
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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