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View Full Version : buying advice please EOS 650 or D 5200?



simk
01-01-13, 03:53 PM
Hi and apologies if this or similar questions have been asked before I am new to the forum!
I have had 'old' SLR cameras before (Pentax) and then switched to digital some years back, having gone through compacts, zooms and bridge cameras never really feeling satisfied with the results I am going to buy a DSLR. The price and specifications now seem much more appealing and I have more time to 'play' with toys!
I currently have a couple of olympus digitals about 5 years old and a slightly newer panasonic lumix which is ok, but I find all of them a bit slow and limited, having to change cameras sometimes to get decent results, none of these cameras is very good for action / sports.
I have done a little research and playing in shops and have decided between the canon EOS 650d and the Nikon D5200, I keep getting pushed towards the EOS650 by salesmen who are admittedly canon fans and havent used a D5200 so they are biased.
We need an all round camera for the family, my wife is involved in crafting & baking so needs flexibility to alter depth of field and macro use while I will use it for sport and general family & landscape stuff.
My budget is flexible at around 500 plus for a camera (basic kit) and I can spend another 250 or so on a telephoto lens to get us under way hence my choice of the above.
I have seen the canon EOS650D for around 450 with 18-55 lens and the Nikon 5200 for 600 so both on budget.
any input very welcome!
I am not complete novice but will need to re-learn a lot due to the lazy compacts I have been using so want something I can use straight away but 'grow' with also.
thank you!

graham_c
01-01-13, 04:48 PM
Hi Smick welcome to the forum.

I was looking at the Nikon d5200 before I got my D7000. The 5200 is an upgrade from the 5100 with a few modifications ( mainly internal) . The first is 24 mega pixel sensor I thought it was the same as in the D3200 but Nikon say it's improved. If you are looking to do macro the higher resolution will be a great asset.

The second upgrade is borrowed from the D7000 which is a 39 point focusing system. I find this outstanding on my d7000.

Rather than going for the 18 55 kit lens I would look at the sigma 17- 70 os lens it's a wee bit faster, a wee but sharper with a wee bit more zoom, it can also do macro although it's not a true macro it does give good results.

Both Nikon and Canon make great cameras and no matter which one you select it will give great results. Hope this helps ... Graham

simk
01-01-13, 05:13 PM
Hi Graham, Thanks very much for the input, I am really leaning towards the Nikon as it also seems less confusing with lenses (DX) that are what they say they are rather than compensating factors etc being applied to the canon, I realise thats only a small point !
And I had a play with the EOS touch screen and found that it was a bit distracting and I ended up chasing the subject and messing about with settings too much and the subject had gone!
I thought this was just me being unused to it but the salesman was the same !
Not many shop staff seem to be Nikon friendly really, they all seem to push Canon which is fine as they are great cameras but the Nikon does seem a level up on specs and is newer so will last as a model that bit longer?
Perhaps its too new to get some real feedback?
I also have a panasonic digital camcorder so movies aren't really going to be a factor however if the camera I buy is good enough for short clips that would be a real plus & the Nikon seems ahead again?
Also on the subject of lenses there seems to be a very similar amount out there for both but due to price I think I would be limited to buying say 2 lenses to give me my required coverage, are the Sigma & Tamron equivalents as good on image and focus quality / speed as Canon/Nikon own systems? is there anything to watch out for? I had a look on the sigma website and they seem to cover just about everything!
thanks
S

wave
01-01-13, 05:24 PM
hi as you have done the going to the shop bit and looking then its now down to personnel choice. one thing get right is that an canon ef lens will fit any canon DSLR the efs lenses only fit the aps-c sensors ie the 650d 60d 7d. i would looik at ken rockwells guide to the nikon fit lenses as a canon shooter i am biased. so as said before its now down to personnel choice

simk
01-01-13, 05:41 PM
Thanks Wave,
that simplifies things, so canon do EFS for the APC sensor range and Nikon do the DX for their APC range, like for like !
theres one thing that stands out, Canon users are generally very happy with their kit as they recommend and stand by them which says a lot.
It seems to come down to whether I want to spend the extra 150 on the Nikon or use it to get an extra lens for the Canon.
I have had a play with the 3100 but in both shops they didn't have a 5200 to play with which is a shame. When it comes to it I expect the kit is going to set me back around 600 - 800 so I want to make an informed choice as I can.
I have waited for a while now and you cant wait forever! prices will come down and specs will go up thats inevitable, I think now is a good time to buy.
I really liked the Pentax K30 due to the weather proofing and slight increased FPS rate but was put off by salesman blag and there seems to be a lot less lenses and accessories out there, also resale should i move on would likely be a lot less.
Thanks very much for all the input, I am looking to buy in the next week or 2.
cheers

graham_c
01-01-13, 06:30 PM
Sigma / Tamron lenses are of very good quality. They used to be just cheap versions but have got there act together and now produce really well made quality lenses.

i have a few Sigmas ( wide angle, and a 105 macro) and a Tamron which is a 28- 70mm this lens is great for landscapes and as a walk about lens.

I'm not a keen video user but the 5200 does 1080 standard videos and has a built in mic, sorry I don't have a clue about the sound quality. Please let us know what you decide on... Graham

simk
01-01-13, 06:53 PM
Thanks,
I think I am going to go for the Nikon 5200, although to be even more confusing the 3200 looks nearly the same on specs! and being a bloke I have also looked at the next step up...full frame D600 but I really don't think I can warrant the extra 600 !
The D7000 is also appealing due to weather sealing & twin card slots. ???!!!

And looking at full frame Vs APC sensors, the quality of image doesn't really show at the size of prints (A4 max) I am likely to print. And my wife needs to be able to handle it so size needs to be reasonable.

I think I will go for the D5200 with the 18-55 kit lens with the addition of a Nikon AF-S DX 55-300 Nikkor VR lens (around 190 online ) or the sigma equivalent.
I should squeeze in at just under 800 which is really my budget at the moment.

I have managed some great shots with my current digitals but the advantage of flash & exposure bracketing on the 5200 has got to help a novice like myself get more! Thats something I don't think the canon has?

thanks
S

wave
02-01-13, 06:41 AM
Hi i would say that for the majority of what you want to do any DSLR with the right lens will get you excellent pictures. i would research your lens choice I am not a nikon user so not sure of there quality. i wouldnt worry about full frame you may never need it

graham_c
02-01-13, 04:53 PM
Hi
i just looked at the 55 300 lens it's a vr ed lens which will fit perfectly with either a D3200 or D5200.
I understand why you are looking at the D600 it is a great camera

simk
02-01-13, 05:14 PM
Hi,
Yes, too much choice though ! thats my real problem.
I finished work today at lunchtime and went wallet in hand to the shops ready to buy but I still cant find anywhere with a D5200 in stock here in devon !
I did however have another play with a canon 650d and i think i under rated it first time around, it feels very good in the hand, ergonomics are great, and i liked the screen this time, I found it marginally quicker focusing than a nikon 5100 in a side by side comparison, it seems to work well with very little effort - great to get used to quickly (great for beginners!). I have to admit it would have won my money today if it were not for the promised spec of the 5200.
But heres another problem - I had a play with a sony A57 and was really impressed, superfast focusing on the kit lens and up to 12 FPS and the panoramic picture feature was really cool. I was very impressed all round with it and it was on a deal at jessops with a sony zoom lens to complete the kit.
I did find when viewing through the eye piece the colours seemed 'different' so gave me a slightly false sense of things but whether that was due to artificial lighting (as I experience on my panasonic lumix) I cant be sure. It didnt seem as true as the canon or nikon.
the only thing is i cannot really judge the final images as using them in a shop I couldn't print anything off.
I dont think there is a 'bad' camera out there at the price now, I had a go with a pentax K-30 and that was also very good!
I am now looking at buying the 5200 online as they are not around in my local shops which would mean buying blind really and not having a face to go to should i experience any difficulties, but on spec it still looks to be a winner.
I will buy something this week if I have to drive 200 miles to get one !
cheers
:)

wave
02-01-13, 05:54 PM
well it is now down to personnel choice i would look at the lenses available for the cameras you like as this could be the deciding factor for you

simk
02-01-13, 06:11 PM
Thanks Wave,
yes, I have been studying the lenses available too and once again theres nothing between Canon & Nikon, thats where they both score highly above Sony & Pentax really, the choice from their own ranges and from sigma tamron etc is more than adequate for my needs, nikon seem to be slightly cheaper there so the extra 100 or so I spend on the camera would be clawed back over the next few years I expect.
I have also been looking at getting a better photoshop program for my macbook if anyone can recommend something easy to get to grips with, I currently only have i-photo on the mac as only had it about 5 months having switched over from years of windows PC's (I had windows 95 & 98!)
I have photoshop among others on my old windows (Vista) laptop but cant be arsed to even switch it on it crashes so much!
cheers

wave
03-01-13, 07:09 AM
i am a mac user and this is the way i go i shoot RAW and then my edit is with aperture3 if i need anything else like cloning cutting out the i use elements 9. if you go for element then get version 9 or above as that has layer masks in it.
my advice on cameras is dont settle for i will get used to it, make sure its right. like you i had the choice of canon or nikon i went with canon your choice could well be different. good luck

graham_c
03-01-13, 04:08 PM
Hi
I know how you feel with camera choices, My brother has a Pentax which he dearly loves but I think they are a wee bit light when it comes to lenses.None of these makers make bad cameras, it's a matter of deciding which one suits your needs

As for software I'm a windows user and use Photoshop CS5 (with a few plugins) Photoshop do a shortened version of this, Photoshop elements which is also a great program. Paint shop pro x4 ultimate is my other program which is somewhere between CS and elements, it has a few extra tools that photoshop doesn't have , like page curl and Nikon colour effex ... Graham

plw1053
03-01-13, 05:01 PM
...an excellent discussion that really reminded me of the same quandary I found myself in last year. As has been stated all the cameras referred to are excellent and all represent camera's that you can 'grow with'. One thing tho' sales person can ruin a pitch, and if you do not get on with them don't bother to buy as good after sales help and advice is worth a bit... just my pennies worth..for the record I opted for the 600D over the 550 at the time because of the swivel screen and haven't stopped experimenting since!!

simk
03-01-13, 10:15 PM
Thanks all for your input, as i am new to the forum its nice to be welcomed and have my topic treated with fairness and respect - i was a bit dubious i'd get a few 'not another bloody newbie' comments! thanks for your helpful comments.

I havent been able to help myself - even at 42 i am still an impetuous child when it comes to new toys - just ask my wife ! (I have motorbikes, boats, mountain bikes, gym stuff etc. etc. in phases which she is sure I do just to annoy her! thank god for Ebay or i'd be sleeping in the garden!)

I havent played with one yet but going on specs and you tube video reviews etc and playing with other nikon models I have today ordered and paid for the nikon D5200 - it will be with me by next tuesday :)
The canon was a really close 2nd but i couldnt get away from the improved sensor, megapixel rate, focus points etc. it just seems higher spec all round and i think you should buy the best / highest model you can at the time to 'future proof' yourself, and new models do seem to come out every 3 to 6 months at the moment!

Can I just ask 1 question, which I may well be setting myself up for a roasting for...
On my old SLR cameras there were ISO settings which directly related to the film used - lower speed higher quality & colour higher speed used for lower light & higher shutter speeds - easy, you just took a roll or 2 of each in your bag and used what was relative on the day. So why in a digital SLR without any film are ISO settings still relevant? surely the sensor / lens will have such a dynamic operating range which could just be set via aperture & shutter speed? maybe a scene mode setting / sport / portrait / low light might be a help but it looks like most ISO setting advice is to leave it on auto anyway ?
- now feel free to bring me up to date ! my Pentax SLR has been in the loft for about 12 years so I have been at the mercy of compacts and bridge cameras since :)
Cant wait for my d5200 now!
cheers all

wave
04-01-13, 06:27 AM
hi you have answered your own question in a way lower ISO better quality if you up the ISO the sensor gets more sensitive so low ISO better quality. to be honest i dont really auto much except the white balance and as i shoot RAW and can sort it out in post processing. I choose my ISO for what i am shooting my canon has the button on the top and i just adjust it when i need to. good luck with the new camera

graham_c
04-01-13, 10:16 AM
Hi
You have sort of answered your own question , I rarely use auto ISO. I start at 100 and work up, you should get up to 1600 with very little noise and there always your high ISO noise reduction which is very good on a Nikon. Good luck on Tuesday and let us know how you get on... Graham

simk
07-01-13, 09:31 PM
Hi again,
Well my slick new D5200 arrived today with the kit 18-55 DX VR lens and my additional 55-300 DX VR lens to complete my 'starting' kit.
Got the lot from procamerashop online for a smidge over 750 -very competitive, free delivery via UPS took 2 working days, 5 stars to them for help and service.
Very impressed with the whole thing so far, the auto focus is quick on both lenses with perhaps a little slowing towards the high end of the 300mm zoom when reasonably close to a subject.
the multiple AF points work well on auto and are easy to manage manually.
5 FPS shooting at high 24 mp jpeg seems unstoppable ! very good.
the camera is light enough for the wife yet not so that it ends up feeling nose heavy with the longer zoom fitted.
the grip isn't as good as the canon eos 650d but is still good.
the menu system is very easy and above all I can quickly get the thing to do what I want (pretty much !) and thats after just a few hours. now being able to manipulate depth and speed etc makes me want to throw all my old compacts in the bin!
One negative is the lenses have obviously been designed for AF only, you don't have a proper manual focus ring just a bit of a knurled top to the lens, you can manual focus but its not really designed for it.
I like having the main buttons on the right being right handed, the screen quality is excellent.
picture quality (I have only messed about in the garden as light was fading then in the kitchen) is very good.
I have to say apart from the manual focus rings on the lenses it is excellent.

Now I need to get either a macro lens (will have to be cheap!) or some adapter rings ... if they are any good?
I have ordered a couple of UV & polarising filters, bloody hell ! the budget has gone by some margin now !

wave
08-01-13, 06:36 AM
welcome to the world of photography good luck

plw1053
08-01-13, 09:35 AM
...excellent news, we will look forward to seeing the results in the gallery.

graham_c
08-01-13, 11:04 AM
Congratulations on your new camera , look forward to seeing your photos on the site... Graham